Author Topic: Hi From Savannah  (Read 1650 times)

Offline bearjew

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2016, 01:12:29 PM »
Very impressive speakers, nicely done. While I love seeing DIY projects, I did NOT need to see "build a speaker on the kitchen table"!  >:D That got wheels spinning in my head. Maybe someday, I have a feeling if I did a build like that there could be two dead curious cats in the house, the intervention would soon follow.

My wife hates when I look at DIY stuff.  I recently asked her if I could make a 7 foot tall subwoofer...  You can probably guess what the response was.

Is she strong enough to move a 7' sub? If so, you're screwed. If not, turn it up and you're good to go!

Touche, but I think she'll notice me trying to sneak it into the house, so it might get stuck sitting outside haha.
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Offline jazzman53

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2016, 05:19:08 PM »
"What I can't do and ML can is design passive crossovers that work well enough to allow building non-bi amp'd hybrid ESL's that sound good.  It's horrendously difficult to build a balanced hybrid ESL with passive components.  And this you must be able to do if you wish to build ESL's cheaply enough to sell at a profit."

Jazzman - I would imagine designing that could be hellaciously complicated. On the other hand biamping does give the listener a bit more flexibility tailoring the sound to their taste.   Do you find you lose resolution or add noise by going through the Behringer? In theory it is doing everything at 96/24 so that there should not be anything detectable, but what about noise from the inexpensive op amps in the active?

OBG-  My only beef with the DCX is its outdated computer interface, which would allow remote adjustments from a laptop computer in lieu of using its front panel controls-- but the interface requires a serial port and most laptop manufacturers quit using serial ports years ago.

Aside from the computer interface, I find the DCX to be incredibly resolving and dead quiet.  I originally used an active analog crossover until a conversation with Roger Sanders convinced me to buy the DCX.  The DCX offers much more flexibility and features, and at a very nice price to boot.

Even if I knew how to design a passive crossovers for an ESL, I would use one in my personal speakers.           
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Offline OldiesButGoodies

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2016, 08:03:39 PM »
"Even if I knew how to design a passive crossovers for an ESL, I would use one in my personal speakers."

I assume you meant to insert a "not" after "I".   :(|)

It is encouraging to hear positive feedback on the Behringer hardware.  I am a fan of some of their equipment, but most audiophiles frown upon anything made by Behringer.   

Thanks for the great site and the inspiring story on how you were motivated to learn how to build these.  Very cool.

OBG

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Offline bearjew

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2016, 08:12:50 PM »
"Even if I knew how to design a passive crossovers for an ESL, I would use one in my personal speakers."

I assume you meant to insert a "not" after "I".   :(|)

It is encouraging to hear positive feedback on the Behringer hardware.  I am a fan of some of their equipment, but most audiophiles frown upon anything made by Behringer.   

Thanks for the great site and the inspiring story on how you were motivated to learn how to build these.  Very cool.

OBG

I think he meant he'd still use the DCX...

As for behringer... from a musician's standpoint, Behringer is utter garbage when it comes to guitar amps, mixers, and... well, pretty much anything in my experience.  I do have one of their cheap-o compressor/limiter combos though that I used to use for watching TV when I was living with my brother and sister-in-law so I could watch movies late at night without waking them up.  Can't say much for quality, since I intentionally bought it to make all of the sound the same volume and quiet, but it does what it's product description says.
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Offline OldiesButGoodies

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2016, 08:29:18 PM »
"Even if I knew how to design a passive crossovers for an ESL, I would use one in my personal speakers."

I assume you meant to insert a "not" after "I".   :(|)

It is encouraging to hear positive feedback on the Behringer hardware.  I am a fan of some of their equipment, but most audiophiles frown upon anything made by Behringer.   

Thanks for the great site and the inspiring story on how you were motivated to learn how to build these.  Very cool.

OBG

I think he meant he'd still use the DCX...

As for behringer... from a musician's standpoint, Behringer is utter garbage when it comes to guitar amps, mixers, and... well, pretty much anything in my experience.  I do have one of their cheap-o compressor/limiter combos though that I used to use for watching TV when I was living with my brother and sister-in-law so I could watch movies late at night without waking them up.  Can't say much for quality, since I intentionally bought it to make all of the sound the same volume and quiet, but it does what it's product description says.

...and there we go, the local rep of the 'I-hate-Behringer' union weighed in.


BJ - understood, you have had multiple bad experiences with the B folks.  Just propose we leave some space out there for the possibility that some of the eq they make may be ok.   Like the active x-overs.   8)

Spkr: VMPS RM40
Pre: McCormack RLD-1, Rotel 970BX Phono
Amps: Channel Islands Audio D-200 MkII 
Phono: VPI Aries 1,  Van de Hul Frog
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Cass: Tascam 122MkII
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Offline bearjew

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2016, 08:49:06 PM »
"Even if I knew how to design a passive crossovers for an ESL, I would use one in my personal speakers."

I assume you meant to insert a "not" after "I".   :(|)

It is encouraging to hear positive feedback on the Behringer hardware.  I am a fan of some of their equipment, but most audiophiles frown upon anything made by Behringer.   

Thanks for the great site and the inspiring story on how you were motivated to learn how to build these.  Very cool.

OBG

I think he meant he'd still use the DCX...

As for behringer... from a musician's standpoint, Behringer is utter garbage when it comes to guitar amps, mixers, and... well, pretty much anything in my experience.  I do have one of their cheap-o compressor/limiter combos though that I used to use for watching TV when I was living with my brother and sister-in-law so I could watch movies late at night without waking them up.  Can't say much for quality, since I intentionally bought it to make all of the sound the same volume and quiet, but it does what it's product description says.

...and there we go, the local rep of the 'I-hate-Behringer' union weighed in.


BJ - understood, you have had multiple bad experiences with the B folks.  Just propose we leave some space out there for the possibility that some of the eq they make may be ok.   Like the active x-overs.   8)

Which is why I specified "from a musician's standpoint".  I won't knock anything I haven't heard (except Bose, because once you heard one, you heard them all), but Behringer's musician gear is... poop.
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Offline jazzman53

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2016, 08:50:43 PM »
"Even if I knew how to design a passive crossovers for an ESL, I would use one in my personal speakers."

I assume you meant to insert a "not" after "I".   :(|)

It is encouraging to hear positive feedback on the Behringer hardware.  I am a fan of some of their equipment, but most audiophiles frown upon anything made by Behringer.   

Thanks for the great site and the inspiring story on how you were motivated to learn how to build these.  Very cool.

OBG

I think he meant he'd still use the DCX...



Yes, I meant to say that I would not use passive crossovers in my personal speakers ever again.  And I do like the DCX and think it's a lot of value for the money. 

One objective of my website was to post a really inexpensive  ESL design that would be affordable for almost anyone to build.  I think I suceeded with the panels and power supplies but the active crossover and bi-amping requirement pushed the cost out of reach for some folks.

Although I would NEVER use passive crossover myself, I would like to design one to work with a hybrid ESL so that I could then post a minimal cost ESL option on my website.

All of the crossover design calculators that I've seen are useless for ESL's because they rely on the drivers having a relatively stable impedance.  Whereas, and ESL panel is a big capacitor with an impedance drops drastically with increasing frequency--- going from several tens of Ohms at mid bass frequencies to less than 1 Ohm at the top treble octave.
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Offline jazzman53

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2016, 09:05:41 PM »
I would add about the Behringer DCX:

Although it's advertised as a pro unit, most other pro gear I've seen, unlike the Behringer, is relatively expensive and built like a tank to take a lot of abuse.  I'm thinking the DBX may actually be better suited to home mid-fi applications.   It does sound quite good though, to my ears.







Carver C1 preamp
Logitech Transporter
Carver CTL100 CDP 
Carver TX-11A tuner
Carver TFM-25 amps (4)
Behringer DEQ 2496 EQ
Behringer DCX 2496 crossover
DIY Hybrid Electrostatic speakers
DIY Ripole Subs
DIY cables

Offline Sir Thrift-a-Lot

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2016, 09:49:02 PM »

It is encouraging to hear positive feedback on the Behringer hardware.  I am a fan of some of their equipment, but most audiophiles frown upon anything made by Behringer.   


"Most audiophiles" would trip over themselves to buy a Behringer unit if it was rebadged Marantz or Lexicon.   It has happened repeatedly.   The fact is that all made in China electronics come from the same few factories and they have more in common than they don't.   At least Behringer prices their stuff accordingly.

Offline jazzman53

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2016, 07:41:21 AM »
Impressive site.   Due to family considerations, I could never have a pair of ESLs, but it is fun to live vicariously through your terrific pictures.

Thank you Sir,
The only reason I haven't moved in with my GF is that she won't have my speakers in her living room... with the black grills on they look like the obelisks from 2001 Space Odysee   

They also zap flying insects and anything else that makes a conduction path between the stators.
Carver C1 preamp
Logitech Transporter
Carver CTL100 CDP 
Carver TX-11A tuner
Carver TFM-25 amps (4)
Behringer DEQ 2496 EQ
Behringer DCX 2496 crossover
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DIY Ripole Subs
DIY cables

Offline Sir Thrift-a-Lot

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2016, 08:55:56 AM »

They also zap flying insects and anything else that makes a conduction path between the stators.

Dual purpose.   I love it!

Offline OldiesButGoodies

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2016, 10:01:58 AM »
Impressive site.   Due to family considerations, I could never have a pair of ESLs, but it is fun to live vicariously through your terrific pictures.

Thank you Sir,
The only reason I haven't moved in with my GF is that she won't have my speakers in her living room... with the black grills on they look like the obelisks from 2001 Space Odysee   

They also zap flying insects and anything else that makes a conduction path between the stators.


DO NOT repeat DO NOT move in with her - yet.  You must absolutely agree on this issue before making any such escalation of the relationship.  Our hobby is a lifelong obsession - trying to live with someone that does not recognize that is a really bad move (it will not get better, the love will slowly wither and turn into woofer-argument hell).  She may even  talk you into getting one of those absurdly expensive Bose systems that sound like Bose. Get her commitment in writing,  like a pre-nup,  that your partner,  "________ agrees to live with your speaker size and aesthetic choices,  in sickness and in health, until death do you apart"   Have it notarized (the UPS store will do that for 15 bucks, and you will give the notary a laugh) and framed,  make one copy for each listening room.   Add a word about subwoofers in there, and a clause that permits at least 7 real speakers (not in-walls) in the home theater area if you have one.  Then move in with her and get ready to walk with her to the wall where the contract document is on display every time an argument about WAF pops up (of course,  have several copies in reserve at a safe location -  she will occasionally destroy the copy on display and claim it was stolen by eccentric crooks).   

Just some advice from experience.

 :)

OBG

Spkr: VMPS RM40
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Amps: Channel Islands Audio D-200 MkII 
Phono: VPI Aries 1,  Van de Hul Frog
CD: Oppo BDP-83 DAC: Young DSD DAC
Cass: Tascam 122MkII
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Sub: Rhythmik FV 15HP

Offline RuralTom

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2016, 03:04:22 PM »
Make her move in with you, problem solved!  Worked for me at least....
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Offline bearjew

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2016, 03:35:18 PM »
She'll get used to it.  She just doesn't realize it yet.  Then one day, you won't turn it on, and the TV will be playing through the crappy built-in speakers, and she'll realize what the fuss is all about.  At least I assume... I have yet to experience wife acceptance :P  Come to think of it, she still doesn't even know what my new amps look like since they're still in the boxes.
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Offline RuralTom

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Re: Hi From Savannah
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2016, 03:43:58 PM »
Where'd those lil Carvers go off to, BJ?
pre :  Melos GK1, Usher P-303
DAC: M2Tech Young
amp: VTL Compact 80, Onkyo M-504
CDP:  Onkyo DX-706
Mac Mini server
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