Author Topic: Flame Linear 400  (Read 1459 times)

Offline OldiesButGoodies

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Flame Linear 400
« on: September 11, 2016, 11:57:19 AM »
Woke up this morning,  went to my shop to work on a CD player that is not responding to the skip button.  Turned on NPR radio on the Toshiba tuner going through the Phase Linear 2000/400 combo and got to work.  At one point I moved the PL400 a bit to get to the back of the pre and connect the CD and *poof*  smoke billowed from the right Genesis speaker!  Luckily the left one was disconnected as I had a small cheap sony tester speaker hooked up. Both the Sony and the one Genesis are toast (well,  I can sell the recently re-foamed passive radiator from the Genesis for parts I guess).   The cause:  80V of pure DC power to both channels.  One of the two 2N1304 bias transistors came disconnected from the driver board and caused a cascade of damage that included 4 PL909 output transistors spread across both channels.  Luckily the Oak Audio driver board did not suffer any damage (that thing is a  battle tank - recommended upgrade!), and after replacing the 1304 and the 4 PL909s,  the Flame Linear 400 is biased and singing again (that speaker destroying SOB).  Before I hook any more speakers in a permanent fashion, I will wire up this speaker protection relay that I ignored installing for so long...

The flame linear reputation lives on!

Oouch by Jose Sifontes, on Flickr

Untitled by Jose Sifontes, on Flickr

When the Phase Linear works it sounds REALLY good.  When it goes nuts,  it goes really nuts.  Respect those two bias transistors!

OBG
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 01:27:40 PM by OldiesButGoodies »

Spkr: VMPS RM40
Pre: McCormack RLD-1, Rotel 970BX Phono
Amps: Channel Islands Audio D-200 MkII 
Phono: VPI Aries 1,  Van de Hul Frog
CD: Oppo BDP-83 DAC: Young DSD DAC
Cass: Tascam 122MkII
R2R: Revox B77
Sub: Rhythmik FV 15HP

Offline geoffr

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2016, 12:38:42 PM »
Is that amp that great as to risk damage to other equipment, or possibly cause a fire?
Living room: Fisher 400, Thorens TD124, Arcam CD, Klipsch Heresy
Home office: Scott 222c, Rega P25, Marantz CD, Omega 3T desktop speakers and Deep Hemp sub
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Offline Sir Thrift-a-Lot

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2016, 01:09:44 PM »
80V.   That'll do it.   That relay is like the tooth that is cracked but you don't go to the dentist until it actually starts hurting.

Offline OldiesButGoodies

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2016, 01:23:47 PM »
Well George Geoff,  on behalf of my recently diceased Genesis 20 speaker,  I would have to say no.... (anyone Have a pair of Genesis and is looking for a center channel? or maybe a pair of Genesis 10s that would want to upgrade to the version with passive radiators?   :P I digresss...). 

IMO the 70V (or 80V in my case) failure mode is rare - it happened to me because I flipped that driver board down so many  times  that the leads to Q6 were understandably ready to come disconnected [Edit: and the nuts that attach it to the chassis were loose - that did not help either].  Not everyone will have that problem. And if you add the relay protection you should be fine (which Scott [BMW75] did early on in his PL700, I ignored his advice,  my bad). 

So I will just fix the original design flaw by adding the safety circuit and continue using it in the shop. 

OBG

PS - No plans to connect it to my B&W 803s any time in the near future...  the above notwithstanding  :(|)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 01:41:59 PM by OldiesButGoodies »

Spkr: VMPS RM40
Pre: McCormack RLD-1, Rotel 970BX Phono
Amps: Channel Islands Audio D-200 MkII 
Phono: VPI Aries 1,  Van de Hul Frog
CD: Oppo BDP-83 DAC: Young DSD DAC
Cass: Tascam 122MkII
R2R: Revox B77
Sub: Rhythmik FV 15HP

Offline ataudio

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2016, 01:59:38 PM »
You're taking this much better than I would have. A had on old power amp to the same to a pair of KLH Model 6 speakers. I avoid old power amps now. Just gun shy I guess. But on a happier note im glad you were able to fix the PL400. 

Offline OldiesButGoodies

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2016, 03:21:34 PM »
Life would be boring without the occasional need for a fire extinguisher. These things are fixable. Progressive diseases without a cure that kill humans, those piss me off, cannot fix those.

Spkr: VMPS RM40
Pre: McCormack RLD-1, Rotel 970BX Phono
Amps: Channel Islands Audio D-200 MkII 
Phono: VPI Aries 1,  Van de Hul Frog
CD: Oppo BDP-83 DAC: Young DSD DAC
Cass: Tascam 122MkII
R2R: Revox B77
Sub: Rhythmik FV 15HP

Offline scorpio333

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2016, 04:21:29 PM »
I've got a pair of Genesis, I believe g2 I can't keep it all straight anymore, hooked up to the girls tv. I refoamed them after hearing your Genesis awhile back and they sound good hooked up to a newer Marantz black face ht amp. That's a shame you cooked one, I thought they sounded great. Not sure your good Genesis will fit where the current junk center is, but if the price is right I might try it out.

Offline Sir Thrift-a-Lot

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2016, 04:32:49 PM »
Life would be boring without the occasional need for a fire extinguisher.

Truer words were never spoken.

Offline bmwr75

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2016, 05:46:31 PM »
My PL 700B had 80V on the speaker outputs the day I brought it home.

Installed the White Oak control board and Imlay speaker protect relay before ever connecting it to speaker.  Guess I'm a two rubber guy.
Media: CDs ripped to Apple Lossless files
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DAC: AudioSmile modded Behringer DEQ2496
Preamp: Rogue Audio Perseus
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Offline OldiesButGoodies

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2016, 07:52:32 PM »
Quote
Guess I'm a two rubber guy.

lmao - yes you are,  good for you! 

A generous member of the forum has offered a spare epi woofer to resuscitate the Genesis (the tweeter somehow survived the 80Vs),  so I guess I will be in business again soon. 

This time I will put the relay in line before turing connecting the speakers,   be more like Scott!

OBG

Spkr: VMPS RM40
Pre: McCormack RLD-1, Rotel 970BX Phono
Amps: Channel Islands Audio D-200 MkII 
Phono: VPI Aries 1,  Van de Hul Frog
CD: Oppo BDP-83 DAC: Young DSD DAC
Cass: Tascam 122MkII
R2R: Revox B77
Sub: Rhythmik FV 15HP

Offline papabearjew

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2016, 08:56:44 PM »
Life would be boring without the occasional need for a fire extinguisher. These things are fixable. Progressive diseases without a cure that kill humans, those piss me off, cannot fix those.

I definitely have to agree with above statement! Chemo Tuesday in two days. Shit

Offline MacGeek

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2016, 10:13:22 PM »
Good Luck PBJ
MAC C-46 pre, MQ 108 eq, MC 352 amps (2), MR 78 tuner, MCD 500 CD, MPI-4 scope, LS 352 speakers, Sony HDR-F1HD AM/FM/HD tuner, Denon DRS 810 cassette, Denon CDR-W1500 CD recorder, Music Hall MMF-9 w/B&O MMC2, Revox A-77 R to R.

Offline papabearjew

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2016, 10:34:10 PM »

Offline gdv

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2016, 06:17:59 AM »
Pepe,
Glad to hear you will be able to restore the Genesis speakers!!!  :)
5 out of 4 people have trouble with fractions...

Offline bmwr75

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Re: Flame Linear 400
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2016, 06:35:33 PM »
Pepe,

My PL 700B welded the power relay closed in the Monster power unit it is plugged into.  The plug in is supposed to have a delayed start and turn the amp on after everything else powers up.  Was rocking it pretty hard one day and the relay has never opened back up again.  Instant on power on that Monster circuit now.

Regards,
Scott
Media: CDs ripped to Apple Lossless files
Source: Mac Mini using iTunes and Bit Perfect
DAC: AudioSmile modded Behringer DEQ2496
Preamp: Rogue Audio Perseus
Crossover: miniDSP 2X4 HD
Amp: Vincent SP-331
Mains: KEF LS50
Subs: dual SVS SB-2000

 

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