Author Topic: Surround Processing  (Read 4964 times)

Offline GraphicFX

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Surround Processing
« on: June 06, 2011, 10:43:31 AM »
Hello fella's
I have a bit of a problem here and don't know what direction to turn

My Pioneer Elite VSX 95 isn't putting out anything except output from the front channels so I bypassed it and am now using my computer sound card as a preamp

left and right channels are being driven by 2 crown ps-400s running in mono straight from my puters sound card

I want rear fill and have a minty crown ps-200 awaiting the task.
Without a surround preamp how should I go about this?

I don't believe my sound card will run surround in analog so I believe I need a seperate processor (correct me if I'm wrong)

I like the pro equipment I'm currently using both for it's big sound, high power and general indestructibility and am clueless as to what direction to turn.

In keeping with the pro rack mounted look, is there a crossover or some kind of processor out there that will give me surround effects and adjustability. and if so, who has one that is willing to sell to me
I saw that sony es digital processor on here but am looking for something a little simpler that can be rack mounted.

Any and all comments will be greatly appreciated

Thanx in advance to all who respond,
Andrew.  (velo guy)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 10:49:15 AM by GraphicFX »
Main system
Pre-amp: Adcom GTP-350
Main Amplification: Crown PS-400
Surround Amplification: Crown PS-400
Mains: Polk SDA-2B Studio
Rear fill: Polk RTA-12
Subs: (3) Velodyne F1200b

Anders

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2011, 10:52:13 AM »
My computer sound card has surround modes but I think its mostly for games.

Anders

Offline TNRabbit

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2011, 12:27:04 PM »
Sounds like your simplest solution would be to get a computer sound card capable of surround processing.  What's your budget?
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Offline MacGeek

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2011, 05:38:05 PM »
If your surround amp has volume controls, you might try a simple Haffler circut to the rear speakers.  No processor required, so the price is right and you can always add the processor later when you find what you like.
Mac stuff, Sony HDR-F1HD AM/FM/HD tuner, Denon DRS 810 cassette, Denon CDR-W1500 CD recorder, Music Hall MMF-9 w/B&O MMC2, B & O 4002 w/B & O 20 CL, Revox A-77

Offline GraphicFX

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2011, 11:50:43 PM »
If your surround amp has volume controls, you might try a simple Haffler circut to the rear speakers.  No processor required, so the price is right and you can always add the processor later when you find what you like.

What is a "Haffler circuit"?
Main system
Pre-amp: Adcom GTP-350
Main Amplification: Crown PS-400
Surround Amplification: Crown PS-400
Mains: Polk SDA-2B Studio
Rear fill: Polk RTA-12
Subs: (3) Velodyne F1200b

Offline GraphicFX

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2011, 11:53:52 PM »
Sounds like your simplest solution would be to get a computer sound card capable of surround processing.  What's your budget?

My sound card is a 5.1 but I was led to believe that that function was in digital only... I'm gonna go to the nearest radio shack and purchase a 1/8th" pin to rca connector and wire it up to the rear channels of my sound card and see what happens.

I will keep you in the loop...

Thanx for the tip !
Main system
Pre-amp: Adcom GTP-350
Main Amplification: Crown PS-400
Surround Amplification: Crown PS-400
Mains: Polk SDA-2B Studio
Rear fill: Polk RTA-12
Subs: (3) Velodyne F1200b

Offline MacGeek

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2011, 05:33:49 PM »
A Haffler circut is a simple way to extract difference/out of phase signals and send them to a rear speaker or two.  Run a wire from the negative terminals of the left and right channel speaker outputs to one rear channel speaker (two if set up in parallel)  If you have gain or volume controls on the rear channel power amp, use them to set the front/rear balance, by increasing or decreasing the rear channel level.  With proper speaker positioning, the sound can be spooky real and with no processing.

Some vintage receviers and preamps have a mono channel out (a throwback to mono recordings- for those who had not yet bought into stereo at the time), in addition to left and right stereo.  These three channels, when combined with a Haffler circut to set up the rears create a very credible five channel theater, with out any processing and entirely in the analog domain.  Not a bad way to crash together a two channel rig with home theater, assuming proper speaker placement.
Mac stuff, Sony HDR-F1HD AM/FM/HD tuner, Denon DRS 810 cassette, Denon CDR-W1500 CD recorder, Music Hall MMF-9 w/B&O MMC2, B & O 4002 w/B & O 20 CL, Revox A-77

OldiesButGoodies

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2011, 10:10:48 PM »
Are those 1/8" pins that turn into three RCAs?  I have a few of those I can give for free from my days experimenting with 5.1 computer cards,  if you have not bought them yet.

Offline GraphicFX

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2011, 09:34:20 AM »
A Haffler circut is a simple way to extract difference/out of phase signals and send them to a rear speaker or two.  Run a wire from the negative terminals of the left and right channel speaker outputs to one rear channel speaker (two if set up in parallel)  If you have gain or volume controls on the rear channel power amp, use them to set the front/rear balance, by increasing or decreasing the rear channel level.  With proper speaker positioning, the sound can be spooky real and with no processing.

Some vintage receviers and preamps have a mono channel out (a throwback to mono recordings- for those who had not yet bought into stereo at the time), in addition to left and right stereo.  These three channels, when combined with a Haffler circut to set up the rears create a very credible five channel theater, with out any processing and entirely in the analog domain.  Not a bad way to crash together a two channel rig with home theater, assuming proper speaker placement.

I am interpreting what you are saying as hooking up the rear speaker or speakers from the rear amp using speaker outs however how do I get the low level (rca out) signal to the rear amp?
Main system
Pre-amp: Adcom GTP-350
Main Amplification: Crown PS-400
Surround Amplification: Crown PS-400
Mains: Polk SDA-2B Studio
Rear fill: Polk RTA-12
Subs: (3) Velodyne F1200b

Offline GraphicFX

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2011, 09:39:44 AM »
Are those 1/8" pins that turn into three RCAs?  I have a few of those I can give for free from my days experimenting with 5.1 computer cards,  if you have not bought them yet.

Yes those 1/8" pins (3.5mm) into rca is what I seek actually one 3.5mm-dual rca is what I need. I appreciate the offer but I will just go to my local Radio Shack.   I do appreciate the offer though.

I would take you up on your offer but the gas to get to wherever you are from where I am will probably be more costly then radio shack option but thanx anyway and thanx to all who have responded so far... You guys are the best.
Main system
Pre-amp: Adcom GTP-350
Main Amplification: Crown PS-400
Surround Amplification: Crown PS-400
Mains: Polk SDA-2B Studio
Rear fill: Polk RTA-12
Subs: (3) Velodyne F1200b

OldiesButGoodies

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2011, 10:02:20 AM »
Understand - I need to (again) relocate a bunch of extra cables I have to the free cables bin at the shop - I keep hanging on to many of them thinking that some day the need will emerge for one of them,  but that day never comes.  I have three of these and do not expect I will ever go through the "getting 7.1 from my PC" phase again (partly because I will never own a PC again - Macs rule baby! OS X Lion coming soon for $29   ;D)

Regards,

Pepe

Offline MacGeek

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2011, 12:26:08 PM »
Any line level output will drive the rear channel amp.  It can be the same as the front left/right stereo outs (possibly split, although that is not the preferred approach).
Mac stuff, Sony HDR-F1HD AM/FM/HD tuner, Denon DRS 810 cassette, Denon CDR-W1500 CD recorder, Music Hall MMF-9 w/B&O MMC2, B & O 4002 w/B & O 20 CL, Revox A-77

Offline treitz3

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2011, 08:55:34 PM »
My Pioneer Elite VSX 95 isn't putting out anything except output from the front channels so I bypassed it and am now using my computer sound card as a preamp
Have you checked all of the internal settings on the AVR itself? It may just be that you have bypassed them or set the other channels to "off" by accident. Just taking two steps back to go five feet forward here....
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference.

Offline GraphicFX

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Re: Surround Processing
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2011, 12:18:30 PM »
Thanx to all for your help and advice
I took Macgeek's advice and used the crown ps-200 as a surround amp using a Haffler circuit.

Best and most subtle surround fill I've ever encountered

It seems to extend the the distance of the mains deeper into the room (further away from the source) without that tinny sound that many processors produce from the rear channels, with the added bonus of not altering the purity of the stereo source.

Thanx again to all who responded
You've been a huge help

Andrew
Main system
Pre-amp: Adcom GTP-350
Main Amplification: Crown PS-400
Surround Amplification: Crown PS-400
Mains: Polk SDA-2B Studio
Rear fill: Polk RTA-12
Subs: (3) Velodyne F1200b