In my quest for high sensitivity speakers to drive with tubes...

[Dicky]

Never seen those before...

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

Sorry about the huge pics.   I need to be more careful when linking from a Google image search.

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

Let's try these...

IP...



KP-250...

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

Okay, I had a listening session with my new toys.   I put the Cambridge Audio CD player into the Pioneer speakers.   I wanted to do this with a 10 watt tiny Marantz that I have (as it is somewhat tube like), but the power switch is acting wonky and I couldn't get it to stay depressed.   So I used a Technics integrated instead.

First, I will say that I believe the 102db sensitivity spec.   The listening level with quite adequate with the Technics at 8 O'clock.   When I went up to 9 O'clock it was melting my face off.   Second, I have to say that their most glaring deficiency is an almost total lack of deep bass (which from what I hear gives them something else in common with the Hersey IPs).   With the Technics "Super Bass" button depressed, they sounded reasonable on bass guitar, but still only made a flubby approximation of a kick drum.   The cabinet is smallish for a 12" ported, so I may try stuffing them with polyfill and see if this helps at all.   I also plan to recap and refinish.

Once you get past this obvious deficiency, they become very listenable.   First off, I love horns.   These are no exception.   In my listening tests there were moments of magic with the horn tweeter.   On "Wild Mountain Honey" from Steve Miller's "Fly Like an Eagle", the bell tree sounded as good as I have ever heard it.   But it's not just the horns that sound great.   The mids are silky and slightly "in your face" and I imagine these speakers would develop a similar love/hate reaction as Klipsch gets.   Steve's vocals were very nice, with an in the room quality.

I then put on The Band's self titled album, and this revealed again that these speakers are anything but flat.   Certain tracks sounded wonderful, while others fell flat.   The electric piano on "Cripple Creek" was worth the price of admission alone.   Of course all of those layered male vocals on "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" sounded stellar, as I already commented on how nice that range sounds.   The first couple tracks disappointed, but I've never been overly fond of those mixes anyway.

The real surprise came when I played Van Halen's first album.   Other than the lack of Alex's kick (a big deal with that record, admittedly) it sounded superb.   Eddie's guitar was very in the room and even at times right in the middle of my skull.   There were several moments that were just outstanding.   The intro to "Runnin' With the Devil" played differently than I had ever heard it before.   The lack of deep bass revealed the growl in the attack of Michael Anthony's bass in much the same way that Hartke aluminum drivers do in my own bass rig.   The guitar bridge trill was very in the room, then the rhythm guitar was very in your face.   Lastly when Diamond Dave came in, he sounded great.

My favorite moment listening to that disc was hearing the reverb trails on Eddie's acoustic during the first half of "Ice Cream Man".   I've never owned a speaker than revealed them more clearly and these old boxes surprisingly came close to my beloved Grado cans in this regard.

Lastly, I will say one very encouraging thing about the Cambridge Audio CD player.   I didn't want to judge it too much as I was hearing it through unknown speakers, but I flipped through "The Cars Greatest Hits" and was surprised as this is the only CD player I have owned on which this disc didn't sound strident.   I usually reserve this one for either vinyl or listening with my computer through the E-Mu card, but it was quite listenable on this deck.   Surprisingly so.   I'm looking forward to plugging it into the main system so I can hear it with familiar surroundings, but I want to take it apart first.   The shuffle control, while functioning properly, doesn't feel right.   I want to get a look.   The unit also needs a good clean up.

It was a fun afternoon of listening.

[tinpan]

So.... Mr. Sir Thrift a Lot, I do have a small bone to pick with you when I get back from the office.

[tinpan]

Sooo... you are definitely onto something here. If could only have done this a few years ago you could have saved me THOUSANDS of dollars.

Ok, well maybe not, but I went over to my father's house and found his  Sansui SP-100's. Now granted, these things are old. He bought them at the PX in Brussels in around 1967. I remember listening to a 45 RPM album my parents gave me called the Beatles Magical Mystery Tour. He had an old Sansui receiver and the Elac Mirrachord I had refurbished last year.

So really, last night was probably the first time I heard those speakers since those days back in the 60's. I do remember how nice and warm that album sounded and it did lead me into swiping my brother's stash of Blind Faith and Cream albums and playing those too.

When STOL mentioned old speaker and paper cones and tube amps... well it was more than I could resist. I was hopeful maybe they would be cool 25 wpc 2 ways with all paper cones.


So, I took the grills off and low and behold, not a 2 way system but 3 way... still ok. The cones all tested out ok, the surrounds are tar covered cloth and still look brand new....maybe a good thing maybe not. We'll just have to see


I guess it's a crossover kind of, we have clear natural and soft.


The grills are a little beat up from being kicked around in the basement for let's see how many years is that?

My first test was with the denon av amp in the garage. As I expected it sounded sterile flat and dry. I hate that amp anyway but it did confirm all drivers working.

Next I hauled the speakers to the living room and broke out the 300b Homebrew tube amps. I tried the natural setting and they sounded like... well muffled and muddy. Next up was the soft setting, it sounded muddier and more muffled. I figured this wasn't going to end well.

Last up was the clear setting, much to my surprise, the highs all came back and a really nice rich full range started emanating from the speakers. Mind you, it doesn't have a lot of bass, but the highs were ok and a really nice midrange. Quite acceptable and very nostalgic considering the history on these speakers. They definitely are a nice under $100 dollar option for speakers if you have a spare tube amp. I think I will order those pristine grills in ebay for $17 dollars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGSoNiIPP2g

Oh heck, I can't figure out how to post the video ...anyway. Lot's of fun

[schwarcw]

Nice writeup!

Sansui's were very popular with Vietnam era servicemen returning from overseas.  I heard several sets back in the day.  I have fond memories of listening to those in my buddy's basement in the early '70's.  Good fun!

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

So.... Mr. Sir Thrift a Lot, I do have a small bone to pick with you when I get back from the office.

Ugh... You're welcome?

They look like the same high frequency horns.

I'm looking forward to hearing them with tubes, but don't plan to do that until after I recap (why chance it?).

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

Oh, and try some DeOxit on the tweeter pad.

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

Nice writeup!

He gets "nice writeup" but I didn't get a peep for my seven paragraphs.   Hmmmpf.

I guess the lesson is "take some pictures".

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

As far as the lack of bass goes, I'm planning on stuffing mine with polyfill.   Please let me know if you try this and if it helps.

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

I may even pull a driver and ask rgpit to test if for me.   They didn't have computer optimization back then.   Perhaps the port can be tuned some.

[tinpan]

Sooo... you are definitely onto something here

Oh you get more than a nice write up. You get a brilliant idea badge.

[schwarcw]

Nice writeup!

He gets "nice writeup" but I didn't get a peep for my seven paragraphs.   Hmmmpf.

I guess the lesson is "take some pictures".

LOL!

Mark your writing is impeccable!  Tinpan struck my nostalgic chord.