I actually got them with junk tubes from what I have read. I purchased a new set of tubes from VAC and the price was anticipated. Thankfully I got a killer deal on the amps themselves and Keven Hayes offered me a great deal on the tubes so it wasn't as painful as you might expect. (still painful) Once they are retubed and I break them in, I will comment on the sound. At 65ish watts a channel pure class A they sound great. I can't wait to see what they sound like with the better tubes and more power. For now I am happy.