Audio Discussion > TUBES TUBES TUBES

Ignorant new user looking for a new habit

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scorpio333:
I've browsed around the forum for awhile just trying learn new things. I think now is the time that I pick a new habit to try and destroy any chance of economic stability. A year or so it started with me pulling a mid 70's Dual out of the attic. I've gone through a few tables and receivers since then mixing and matching and like what I have setup. It's very modest and there's room to expand.

Should I dive in the deep end and explore tubes? I don't have the funds for new amps or preamps. I'd rather go the other way and tear open something old and forgotten and give the tubes a new life. Plus, I'd get to learn what makes it work which I know nothing about but would like to know. Are old consoles worth the hassle? Is a kit a better idea? Something used? If you had to do it all over again, where would you start?

Anyone got recommendations to either stop me in my tracks or help for what types of tools and reading I should be gathering? Sorry for all the questions and thanks for any help!

StephenWVU:
I've played with a fair amount of solid state and tube equipment. My preference has been with tube.  I also know a bit more about how tube amps/preamps work so for me they are easier to work on.  If you get a point to point wired amplifier or preamp you should be able to keep it running for ever by replacing caps when needed, resistors if they ever die, and tubes when they go.  That being said, if I were to go back and give myself advice for the beginning of the hobby rather than learn it 3 years down the road, I would buy broken point to point, not surface mount or chipboard equipment, learn to read a schematic, and repair the equipment.  Alternatively you can take out a loan, buy a huge lot of equipment, and sell what you don't want.  If it is broken equipment that is easily repaired you will make out VERY well with this typically.

Sir Thrift-a-Lot:
My entire tube experience is with old consoles.   I've had a blast and learned a lot on very little money.   Of course, I've also been extraordinarily lucky.

SunnyDaze:
Keep in mind that asking five audio enthusiasts a question of this nature is like going to five doctors for a diagnosis; you'll get five different answers and no one who will admit that they are wrong.  >:D

Before you "dive in" and start splurging on gear, you should do as much research and listening as you can. The tube world and the solid state world generally rely on very different design philosophies.

Big beefy solid state amps allow for a much greater variety of loudspeakers to be used, typically have a relatively flat frequency response over the audible range, and play loud and clear up to clipping. They also generally have very low THD ratings over their frequency range, especially when compared to their tube cousins. You can find good solid state amps made by Japanese companies who sought to produce higher end gear in the 70's / 80's for reasonable prices.

Output transformers on tube amps are mostly wired for loudspeakers of a specific nominal impedance. Mismatching the impedance between an OT and a loudspeaker can cause the transformers or tubes to have to "work harder" depending on the mismatch. Also, this scenario creates a situation that is not optimal to the output stage of the amplifier and can effect the overall tonal characteristics of the amplifier. Some folks use this to play to their taste; for example it's a common practice to wire up 8 Ohm Klipsch Forte I's to amplifiers with 4 Ohm output transformers; some people prefer the sound of resulting "mismatch".

The cost of a tube watt is generally much pricier than a solid state watt. As a consequence, most tube amps produce moderate to low power. Depending on design and build, a tube amp may not have a flat frequency response (this can be desirable with certain loudspeaker / amplifier combinations) and may generate audible amounts of harmonic distortion. Some fans of tube gear seek specific tube types and circuit designs that distort with even harmonics as they are said to generate a "pleasant" tone.

That being said, high quality tube amps can be easy and inexpensive to acquire. Find yourself a pre-transistorized console made by the likes of Magnavox, RCA, Philco, Grundig, etc.. and do a "console pull". Typically with slight modifications the tube amps removed from stereo consoles sound fantastic.

Solid state gear with PCB internals are generally more difficult to diagnose and repair when they have issues. Modifications on solid state stuff generally requires more patience and experience as well. Tube gear with point to point wiring is the opposite. With a basic knowledge of electronics and some good schematics, tube amps take a few minutes to learn (but a lifetime to master).  O0

Also keep speakers in mind. It's generally not a good idea to mate a set of speakers with an efficiency rating of 85 dB with an 11 watt tube amp. Conversely, a set of 101 dB efficient horns can blast you out of a room quite abrasively with a 200W RMS solid state amplifier.

Best of luck.

StephenWVU:
8-watt gave some super information there!

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