speaker caps

[scorpio333]

OK, you guys convinced me to do the resistors so I ordered them. They're backordered, so I'll get the caps done, then resistors when they arrive.

[ataudio]

I've learned the hard way that replacing electrolitic caps with poly XX film caps may not lead to your desired results.
Just use good quality electrolitic caps.  Film caps have a much lower ESR and may pass much more
hi freg energy than the original caps resulting in a brighter sound. You may like it...you may not. 
Capacitor ESR is not a myth.  Its measureable and may have an undesired affect.

[scorpio333]

How about metallized polypropylene? To be honest, I'm not sure if those are film or electrolitic.

[ataudio]

Those are film caps too.  Not trying to talk you out of film caps but I agree with STAL's comment that good elctrolitics will get
you 90% ( at least) of the way there. Madisound has good caps, cheap too.   If you do decide to use film caps you might have to add
a few ohms of resistance to compensate for the film caps low ESR......say 1 to 5 ohms as an example.   If this is your first recap keep it simple
and go for good quality bipolar electrolitics. 

[SunnyDaze]

How about metallized polypropylene? To be honest, I'm not sure if those are film or electrolitic.

Metalized polypropylene is exactly what it says it is. Think of it as a club sandwich consisting of electrode layers made from metalized film and dielectric layers made from plastic or a similar dielectric material. Film and foil caps are constructed such that the metalized electrode layers are separate layers of metallic foil before the capacitor is assembled. Metalized film capacitors differ as the electrolytic material (usually a thin metalized film) is applied to the dielectric layers during assembly.


In general, both metalized polypropylene and film / foil caps tend to sound "better" than electrolytic caps.

[F1nut]

OK, you guys convinced me to do the resistors so I ordered them. They're backordered, so I'll get the caps done, then resistors when they arrive.

Where did you order from and what products did you order?

As for electrolytic caps being 90% of poly/film/foil for crossovers, I have to disagree. There are some very good electrolytic caps, such as Mundorf and Elna, but they are polar and not meant to be used in crossovers.

I also disagree with the notion that the lower ESR of a ploy/film/foil cap is the cause of brightness. I would venture to say that your undesired results were due to the choice of cap rather than the type of cap. For example, Solen Fast caps are infamously bad in a high frequency crossover circuit while surprisingly good in electronics. In another example, I replaced the high frequency electrolytic cap in my office speakers with a good quality film/foil, which tamed the brightness of the metal dome tweeter.

The bottom line is all caps have a flavor regardless of the type.

[scorpio333]

I ordered jantzen caps and Dayton resistors from Parts Express. These aren't Tannoy speakers so I don't think it'll kill them, if it ends up not sounding good I'll chalk it up as experience and go a different direction. I should have them in a day or two so we'll find out soon.

[F1nut]

Ok well, the Janzten caps (hopefully you got the Superior Z's) will be better than what you've got now, but the Dayton resistors are the exact same as the ceramic blocks you have now. Spend a little extra money and get Mills.

FYI, the new caps will need to burn in, so don't judge the sound quality until you get about 200 hours on them.

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

200 hours?

[AdamG]

In my experience, capacitor burn in seems to be hocus pocus. I hear the difference immediately when replacing capacitors that have some age to them. With the fancy caps, they are all measured at the factory and already to spec. If they are to spec, then they are to spec. The if the properties of a capacitor change measurably in such a short period of time (200 hrs or what have you) then there's something wrong with them.

A fun experiment is to recap one channel and go back and forth listening in mono, so you can really nitpick the a/b results.

Generally, if a company says you need an excessively long break in, that means that your ears are breaking in, not the product.

[Reverend]

I've used nothing but Solen's for the past couple of years with great success.  Definite burn in time but nothing like 200 hours.   

[Sir Thrift-a-Lot]

I haven't done a lot of recapping, but with carts, I find like 20 hours.   That may well be for the mechanical suspension to break in.

[scorpio333]

The caps are out for delivery. Resistors are a day behind. I plan to do caps on one speaker and compare them.

As for the resistors, I tried to get Mills as recommended above but PE didn't have them so I went with Daytons. They'll be fine for my kabuki speakers. Maybe I'll do one crossover with the Daytons and then find some Mills for the other side. Then everyone can come over and tell me which speaker has which resistors? 

This all just fun for me and a learning process. I'm trying to not take things too seriously and let my ears have fun.

[F1nut]

200 hours?

For caps such as Sonicap, Clarity, Obbligato, Jupiter, etc., absolutely. Mundorf and Duland caps take 300 and V-Caps take 500.

[F1nut]

  In my experience, capacitor burn in seems to be hocus pocus. I hear the difference immediately when replacing capacitors that have some age to them.   

   

Of course you do, but that's got nothing to do with burn in.

  With the fancy caps, they are all measured at the factory and already to spec. If they are to spec, then they are to spec. The if the properties of a capacitor change measurably in such a short period of time (200 hrs or what have you) then there's something wrong with them.   

That's seriously flawed logic. Measurements cannot tell you how something sounds, nor can they tell you if burn in has occured. Take tubes for example, just like caps they measure the same brand new and 200 hours later, but they sound very different after 200 hours.

Generally, if a company says you need an excessively long break in, that means that your ears are breaking in, not the product.   

That's just......no. Perhaps I can prove that to you. After upgrading some, let's say crossovers, I'll listen and take notes. I then let the speakers play for some 200 hours or so in a room that is closed off, so I am not actually listening. I then sit down and take more notes, which I then compare with my original notes. The differences are consistently obvious.