Vintage HiFi Audio Forum
Audio Discussion => List your system => Topic started by: OldiesButGoodies on July 13, 2014, 08:32:58 AM
-
After visiting Scott in Irwin and listening to his setup, I have decided to try setting up the music system along the "long wall" of the room in my basement and see how that affects the bass. The testing Macgeek did back when I had the Infinitys with the RTA revealed the usual crazy peaks in my listening position, but it was bearable (specially after adjusting with EQ). With the Amazings set along the short wall and next to the Polk RTi12s (which become huge acoustic walls to the Amazings) music becomes boring to listen to. So I am thinking of leaving the home theater in the short wall and have music on the long side (assuming it sounds good there). Just rotate 90 degrees to listen to music. Will let you all know if it works after shifting a few hundred pounds of stuff around.
OBG
-
Looking forward to you upcoming report.
-
The long wall is usually better for the soundstage in most rooms. Stay away from the corners and bring the amazings at least three ft into the room.
-
interesting experiment... I look forward to hearing the results..... can't visualize the swivel thing to hear music vs HT.
have fun!
-
I have always been a fan of long wall placement for stereo and am set up that way. For Theater, it doesn't seem to matter much
-
MacGeek - just remembered your music configuration and you also set up along the long wall.
The progress report so far is this: one positive side effect of this rearrangement is that I spent three hours sorting my LPs. Ended up classifying them into classical, jazz, rock, latin, other, and bad-ass recordings that I listen to repeatedly. Still a mess on the floor, but somewhat sorted:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/photo2_zpsb1f7b8a9.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/photo2_zpsb1f7b8a9.jpg.html)
The long side setup is taking shape, though I will probably not test the music today as I need more/longer cables. In this picture the Amazings about three feet out but the right one is to close to the side wall, so I need to move the whole thing left-ward eventually. My wife already commented that it would look weird because on speaker would be in front of the wet bar - I told her to leave the basement and let me be in my cave.
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/photo1_zpsf68183c5.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/photo1_zpsf68183c5.jpg.html)
It will be painful if all these moves result in no improvement, but at least I got a good work out and the LPs are sorted. :)
-
I absolutely love your man cave. You should make a list of your amazing recordings. Can't wait to see your observations. In general I have found the long wall + room treatments make the largest sound stage.
-
The long wall works best for my current rig, but my seating position is closer to the rear wall than I prefer. Room dimensions, especially ceiling height seem to matter most. Your peaks may be more a function of listening position relative to the speakers and room boundaries, than which wall you use for placement.
At least you don't seem to need to deal with domestic harmony.
-
Looking good Pepe!
I like to see my Sonoma units on the wall. They look right at home!
-
Being impatient, I went ahead and bought some cheap (by our standards) cable and connected them up in their new location. Initial reaction: the bass issues are still there to a degree (but it is better) - the room is cursed in that sense so I need to think through what else can be done to address it (bass traps?). But the imaging and depth of sound-stage are excellent with the panels being far from the back wall. SO looks like a winner setup. That was with a quickie position tweaking exercise, I expect it to improved as I adjust over time.
OBG
-
That's great news Pepe!
GIK Acoustics makes some real nice sound treatments. They have a great sellection of colors. You can also have pictures on them. I'm thinking a pair of velvet Elvis portraits in the corners would be a winner! O0 :laugh: >:D
They have some great product videos on their website: http://www.gikacoustics.com/ (http://www.gikacoustics.com/)
If you send them a sketch, maybe a few pictures of your listening room, they will make some recommendations for you. Very reasonable prices. I am a very satisfied customer.
-
There website indicates they will be at the Capitol Audiofest at the end of July (July 25, 26, 27) in Bethesda, MD. I've been there a couple of times, you can make it a day trip! Check out the Capitol Audiofest website: http://www.capitalaudiofest.com/ (http://www.capitalaudiofest.com/)
I plan to be there Saturday, July 26
-
Interestingly, they have a long wall vs short wall article on their site.
http://gikacoustics.com/positioning-listening-spot/ (http://gikacoustics.com/positioning-listening-spot/)
-
Thanks Carl. I will finish tweaking the position of the Amazings and remove a few things from the walls behind them, and then send these guys a schematic of the room and pics, see what they come back with.
-
Normally, large overstuffed couches act as bass-traps in rooms. From what I've looked at, you get the most bang-for-your-buck by treating the corners of the room with traps, floor to ceiling. As a cheap check, you can steal some couch cushions and stack them up, see if you can measure any difference by placing them in different areas and corners relative to the room.
To absorb a significant amount of low-bass energy, your foam/treatment needs to be quite thick. 2" egg crate isn't going to tame any bass issues. Generally if you can treat 1/4 wavelength of any trouble frequencies you can tame them very effectively. Raggedness between 150-400 is where treatment is normally the most dramatic.
If I were to treat my room, I'd do 45degree bass traps in the front corners, and also treat between the speakers on the front wall as well first, and then fill in from there if that didn't take care of the bulk of the issue.
-
Thanks Adam - good input. I am looking to replace three of four Ikea chairs with one big leather sofa that will hopefully have some of that "bass trap" feel (if anyone is interested in the chairs/ottomans let me know, we may be able to work something out).
I ended up testing a different arrangement along the original wall. I moved the home theater left/right speakers closer together next to the flat screen, and replaced the 120" front-projection screen with a smaller 100" acoustically-transparent screen that drops in front of the Polks. So the Carvers can be closer together as they need to be for the proper 2/3 rule effect and away from the back wall. Sounds very nice. I should post pictures when done.
Also upgrading the Amazings with 8 new 12" woofers from Dynavox and rewiring them one more time in the process. Hoping the break-in period is short.
-
Leather will help somewhat, because of braking up the waves, but cloth is much better for absorbing sound. The shiny surface of Leather is nearly as reflective as paint. If you want a compromise, perhaps suede would be a better way to go.
-
Also upgrading the Amazings with 8 new 12" woofers from Dynavox and rewiring them one more time in the process. Hoping the break-in period is short.
I'm guessing you've matched the QTS and everything? Those floppy motors on the originals are designed for that speaker system from what I read. I don't know if you'll really be upgrading or side-grading. I know you're using active EQ which makes life much easier, as you can be less critical of the woofer's sensitivity and such, but you'd probably want to keep an eye on that as well.
Modern open-baffle design calls for a woofer with a QTS of approximately .7, it would require a bit less equalization in the midbass/bass regions. The motors are strong enough that they don't need the backpressure from the box to help the cone movement. A qts of .707 is what you shoot for in a sealed box, so without the box that's the woofer strength you'd need.
Definitely keep the originals for if/when you decide to sell off the amazings.
Example of a 12" driver with a qts of ~.7: http://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-1244-12-butyl-surround-woofer-4-ohm--290-366 (http://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-1244-12-butyl-surround-woofer-4-ohm--290-366)
If you want to see what an approximate response would be, you can enter the parameters into one of those subwoofer box calculators, (or google the program unibox and use that) and select 'sealed box' and set the box volume to like 50-100 cubic feet. It's replicates open-baffle.
-
The new drivers are OEM replacements. The specs are the same as the originals. Up until about a year ago, you could not buy replacement surrounds, but Dynavox still manufactured the woofers.
-
The new drivers are OEM replacements. The specs are the same as the originals. Up until about a year ago, you could not buy replacement surrounds, but Dynavox still manufactured the woofers.
Oh! Well that makes life much easier now doesn't it!
-
Good job Pepe! I am very interested in your results, and some pictures!