Vintage HiFi Audio Forum
Audio Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Finleyville on October 01, 2013, 08:36:01 AM
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Anyway...
In an older thread I asked for some recommendations for a bright sounding amp. But thanks to some speaker crossover tweaking I no longer need a bright amp. Now I just need an amp to drive my 83dB efficient speakers. I will be using an Adcom GFP-565 preamp. While I can get by with 125 watts, these things start shining at around 175-200 watts so I am hoping for that. Currently they are over a friends house hooked up to a Rotel RB-1080 and sound very nice. I am looking for used equipment to get more bang for my max 600 bucks. However, I am hoping that price is closer to $400 or under. Rack space is an issue so no separate dual monoblocks or tube amps please.
Here is a short list of what I am considering. PLEASE leave comments about these choices if you owned/heard them.
Adcom GFA-555 mark 1
Onkyo Intregra M-504
Chiro C-200
PS Audio 200C
What am I missing out there? C'mon fellow audionerds. Educate me and help me spend my money wisely!
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I am partial to the larger NAD amps at that price point.
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I'd buy Shayne's Emotiva he just posted. 300x2 for $600. Can't beat that.
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I'd buy Shayne's Emotiva he just posted. 300x2 for $600. Can't beat that.
This might be your best bet. I never had one so I don't know what they sound like but it is a lot of power for the $$$.
http://vintagehifipgh.com/forum/index.php?topic=2435.msg22858;topicseen#msg22858 (http://vintagehifipgh.com/forum/index.php?topic=2435.msg22858;topicseen#msg22858)
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MORE POWER!!!! YES!!!!! ;)
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If Tom doesn't get my Yamaha MX800U, it would be a good amp for you on the cheap... $250
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I NEED THE 800U FOR 2 OHM CRAP
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......"I am partial to the larger NAD amps at that price point.".........
I too like the NAD amps. Owned a handful over the years. Still use a NAD preamp. Overall vintage NAD reliabilty is...well...iffy.
But I never met an NAD amp that I hated. Very musical amps. Very easy to listen too. No major flaws. Output far exceeds
the stated watts/channel. Now dont flame me for this but there are a few decent PA amps that sound very nice. They will definitely have more band for the buck in terms of power. Maybe you could borrow one just to try it out. Get one w/o a fan though...or stash it further away so you dont hear it.
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Predictably, I'd say go with the Onkyo Integra M-504.
They're drop dead sexy, they have a very clean and slightly forward sound, they don't have bloated bass like some of its contemporaries, and they are fairly common so locating parts and completing repairs aren't an impossible chore.
I can attest for their reliability as well. I've used mine daily for the past 6 years with only one issue, a failed JFET, that was easily repaired at the shop. Sometimes I'll leave it powered on for days or even weeks.
I don't really think you can go wrong with any of your options. I'm just partial to Integra gear.
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Initially the Emotiva was in the running. I think I want to go in another direction this time.
I have heard nothing but good stuff from that Integra. That PS Audio and the Chiro have received good reviews too. I think I will leave the Adcom as a backup plan for now but still is a viable option.
I have heard that the Nakamichi PA-5 and PA-7 and of course the current Rotel RB-1080 (not mine, darn) that is powering them now sounds very good too.
Besides that Yamaha MX 800 any others I should be looking for? Carver (which models?) Which model NAD's?
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Besides that Yamaha MX 800 any others I should be looking for? Carver (which models?) Which model NAD's?
Sunfire 300x2, but it will cost you a little more than your budget around $800/$900 ( you do see scratched up case units in the $600 range)
but you will KEEP it for the next 10 years or more so it's real go value.
Brian
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I don't know what your budget is, but I love my Bryston 3b. The Hafler 500 is an awesome performer... capable of crazy low impedance...and is nearly bullet proof, but if it goes, it's expensive to fix. The Kenwood Basic M2 is a surprisingly good performer. Vintage Sansui amps sound incredible, but they are pricey. I'm borrowing a Technincs SE-A50 from Tom that is a huge surprise to me. Sounds every bit as good as a Nakamichi PA-5. I'm not a huge fan of Adcom (sound/reliability), NAD (reliability), or Carver (Sound/reliability), but that's just my experience. Of all the amps I've owned (which isn't many compared to a bunch of other members), My top 3 are McCormack DNA1, Bryston 3b, and Onkyo M-508.
Hope this helps and doesn't further confuse your attempts at narrowing it down to 1.
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If you want to try the Chiro, please tell me asap. I will be trying to go up to Pittsburgh some time next week to visit my grandparents and get in some salsa dancing. If you want to try it out I will bring it to the shop and you can borrow it for a bit. All other amplifiers mentioned are very nice. At this point I just recommend trying amps and seeing what you like best. I must say, if you can get your hands on a decent tube amp for a decent price I doubt you will regret it. :P Keep in mind 100 watts from a tube amp goes a long way. There are many out there for reasonable prices. Golden Tube SE 100 is what I run (monoblocked) and the only issues I had with them was my own stupidity on running bad tubes. Antique Sound Labs makes the Hurricanes which are 200 watt monoblocks and they can be had for a reasonable price as well. They are more dynamic but have less shimmer than the Golden Tube amps. All the same I can't imagine your speakers needing much more than 200 watts from a tube amplifier. Good luck with your search and just tell me if you want me to bring up that amp.
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At that price range I would look at the Integra M-504, the Technics Slim mentioned, or an updated Carver TFM amp (or a 300x2 if you can find a banged up one for that price). The McCormack DNA amp I sold to Slim is outstanding, but not sure it can be had for $600 (unless a generous forum member sells it at a discount - in which case, can I have mine back? :P)
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Looking back through the entire thread, I'm going to say my #1 recommendation is the Hafler DH500. The only drawback is the fan cooling. It will out-power almost anything else in the price-range, and sound better doing it. Although it is expensive to fix, it's nearly impossible to blow up when used correctly. The reason mine blew up was a bad connection coming loose (my fault). The only other people I know on the forum with experience are Tom (OCCD) and Mike (Falcon). With 83 db efficient speakers, you need a pretty decent amount of ass behind them. I had my 500 running bass for a party at 2 ohms per channel and it didn't wimper all night (until the aforementioned connection came loose). Do your research, but if it were my money in your situation, that's what I would go for.
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Just sold a Sunfire 300x2 for $600....wait on one....you will not regret.
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http://vintagehifipgh.com/forum/index.php?topic=910.0 (http://vintagehifipgh.com/forum/index.php?topic=910.0)
Read this.
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I didn't read the thread in detail but Stephen and I had the Chiro c-200 at my house for a while and tested it directly beside the Emotiva XPA-2. The sounded almost identical to my ears, you can't go wrong either way. The Chiro is better build quality, the Emotiva is big power. I don't have much experience with anything else mentioned in the thread with the exception of Adcom. I've heard some Adcom pres and power and never really cared for them. Nothing exciting there!
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Alright...
So I have upped my budget up to around $1000 for the amp! (sorry wallet... >:( )
So these are my new choices in order. Used obviously. Can anyone compare these to each other? Thanks again. I just want to make sure I get this right the first time.
Odyssey Stratos (still tempted to buy this new....hmmmm)
McCormack DNA-1
Bryston 4b (st and newer are expensive)
PS Audio 200c
Onkyo Integra M-508
Adcom GFA-555
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I vote for the McCormack DNA-1
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http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-khartago-stereo.html (http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-khartago-stereo.html)
This Odyssey Khartago amp got rave reviews a few years ago and is cheaper than the Stratos.
Really depends on your speakers though.
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I vote for the McCormack DNA-1
+1, That McCormack is an ass kicker. One of the best solid state amps i've ever heard.
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@BMW: I am afraid that the Khartago will not have enough power. My 3-way 83dB efficient 6-ohm speakers really like the power.....
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I have owned 5 of your 6 choices, The DNA-1 Was easily my favorite, and can drive any speaker..
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Take Falcon's advice. He knows what he is talking about and he has told me on several occasions the DNA-1 was the bomb! BUY IT! You can thank him later.
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I say either the Big Mac or the Onkyo!
In any case, I don't think you'll be dissatisfied.
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Not on your list but I am happier with the sound of the Golden Tube SE 100 amplifier than any other amp I have ever used. It can be had for around 1000. No affiliation to this one. http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-golden-tube-audio-se-100-100-wpc-tube-amp-2013-10-06-amplifiers-60585 (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-golden-tube-audio-se-100-100-wpc-tube-amp-2013-10-06-amplifiers-60585)
At $1,000 there is a huge list of amplifiers that can be found! Good tubes will make a huge difference with the SE100 amplifiers. I learned that the hard way. Don't skimp once you can afford to put good tubes in, assuming you go this route.
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Thank you for your suggestion StevenWVU. However, I want to stay away from tubes with these speakers.
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http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ele/4122734038.html (http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ele/4122734038.html)
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I have a Classe DR Ten for sale, a nice amp but not as powerful as the McCormack DNA-1 which I owned also and loved. If you are interested PM me for a price, if not, I vote for the McCormack. Good hunting, Nick
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You may also want to consider Parasound. I think you can pick up a Halo A21 for around your price point (albeit I have not looked recently). 250w/ch and I find it to be a very musical and yet powerful amp (I have one in my main system).
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Well I missed out on that McCormack.... >:(
While I am still considering a Bryston 4b, Odyssey, or Onyko Integra I found a couple on Audiogon that I am not familiar with. Can anyone give me any personal opinions on these below?
Belles 150A
https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-belles-150a-hot-rod-recent-service-silver-face-xlnt-cond-rare-2013-10-13-amplifiers-57006
Proceed HPA2
https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-proceed-hpa2-2013-09-15-amplifiers-14040
Classe s-700
https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-classe-s-700-amplifier-2013-09-26-amplifiers-22101
I am not looking for a warm sounding amp. I have heard that Classe fits this description. Perhaps I am wrong? Also I want to stay away from a bright sounding amp as well. I thought Emotiva and Bryston may fit here? I am looking for a neutral sounding amp.
I want to thank everyone on their opinions and personal experiences. They are helping me immensely on choosing the right amp for me. Please keep them coming!
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Also,
Does this Threshold look like a good deal?
Threshold 400A
https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-threshold-400a-recently-serviced-2013-09-29-amplifiers-20817-west-bethesda-md
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A little late to the discussion, but my two cents
I've experienced most of the vintage brands 70s thru the early 90s... and fell in love with Belles amps... at the time I was able to actually listen/ compare them side by side in my search for a new amp to replace the Mitsubishi DA-A15 and preamp I had sold. LIstened to :Phase Linear, Mac, Carver, Yamaha, HK, Pioneer,Luxman... can't remember the rest, sorry getting old lol .... against a variety of inputs and speakers ( TOTL Dahlquist, Yamaha, Klipse, Infinity, Carver (yep) , JBL, B&W, and ML I think), the Belles 450 was far and away the best of the lot.... it just revealed what was played without adding or subtracting anything from the source... and so musical it was startling at times....rock, classical, blues, blue grass.... didn't seem to matter..... just my opinion and those at that store at that time... your results may vary lol... too bad I sold that amp a few weeks ago for a song....
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remembered that Bryston amps were in the mix too... which were pretty nice.
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I had Belles many many moons ago too. A superb amp. You've received a ton
of recomendations. Its a difficult decision. They're all good. I think you ruled out tubes...which I can understand. I love them too but I'm in the solidstate camp for a while. Let us know what you decide on.
I really digging the class D stuff. Not everyone's sound signature but I like it.
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I agree Belles amps are good.
The Belles A was one of the best I've ever heard but it got hot as a stove and wasn't reliable.
I recently heard a class D amp and it was so-so.
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yep, understand about the Belles heat thing... those puppies do get hot, not just warm... the heat sinks in the 450 were massive.... as was the transformer. It had to weigh at least 50 lbs or more. Never heard of nor experienced any reliability problems.... I had a Corean stand built for mine (which sold with it) and even put 2" spacers under the feet, and kept it in a well ventilated area ... not a corner, rack or cabinet friendly piece of equipment! lol
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I have made my decision! I have purchased an amp! :laugh:
I will let everyone know what I picked up and how it sounds after it is shipped to me and I had some time to listen to my new setup.
I want to thank everyone here for trying to help me. Your personal experiences and insights were invaluable with my search. If, for some reason, my choice doesn't work out then I have this thread to study some more and make a second decision.
I am looking forward to many great listening sessions to come!