Vintage HiFi Audio Forum
Audio Discussion => List your system => Topic started by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on November 01, 2014, 10:07:34 PM
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This evening I got a nice reminder about the importance of component matching. A few weeks back I got a pair of Klipsch Tangent 300 speakers. One of the horns was broken and I used some epoxy to put it back together. I had been playing them with my bench amp (a Technics SU-V76) and for a few days. I found them to be everything people seem to hate about Klipsch speakers (BTW, I love Klipsch speakers, Hereseys are my daily drivers). They were "shouty" even at 40 or 50 degrees of axis. I kept hoping they would break in. Then, I started wondering if Crites Titanium diaphragms would fit this particular horn. I felt they had potential, but really needed some help.
This evening, in an unrelated project, I hooked up a still disassembled Pioneer SX-450. I wanted to see if the DeOxit bath had been completely effective or if it was going to need another shot. I wasn't even thinking about the speakers, just using them because they were what was on hand at the moment. I cranked up the Fleetwood Mac and it was revelatory. They went from sounding like PA speakers that I couldn't get within ten feet of to sounding like reference monitors. Directly on axis they weren't even the slightest bit fatiguing. Everything I thought might be there but wasn't revealing itself with the Technics came to the front with the Pioneer.
BTW, the Technics has sounded really great with JBLs and ADS, so it's not an issue with that amp. Now I really can't wait to hear the Klipsches with tubes!
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I love when that happens. I got a set of BA A150's for $25 and refoamed them. They didn't sound good at all with a few amps. Hooked them up to a Kenwood and haven't looked back. Everything in that setup plays nice together. I don't mess with it. Outside of the speakers it's the same setup my dad had going from about 76 until he put it out for trash. The marantz speakers are long gone.
I haven't heard Klipschs outside of big box stuff. I've had a bug up my butt about wanting a pair for my tube amp. Curiuosity killed the cat.
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Where are you, Scorpio? You could use the Tangent 300s for a while and see what you think. They aren't prettied up yet, but that should scratch your itch.
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Not just components, but even interconnects and speaker wire can make a huge difference. Not saying one brand type is better than another, just the opposite. Saying
try a few different types/ brands when evaluating... You never know lol
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StaL, I'm in Bethel Park. Those would be nice to try out. I've had a hankering for KG4's but would love to try out anything similar to see if the sound is up my alley.
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PM me when you can come over. Use 'em for a while then give em back once you've made up your mind.
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Oh, I'm in Penn Hills.
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Interconnect and speaker cables can make a huge difference in some systems.
The wrong cable can really make a system bright or dull or boring.
My system when I had it all connected made this very obvious.
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Scorpio, here is the info on the Tangent 300s...
http://www.klipsch.com/tangent-300/details (http://www.klipsch.com/tangent-300/details)
Frequency Response: 38Hz-20kHz(+-)3dB
SENSITIVITY: 96dB @ 1watt/1meter
POWER HANDLING: 125 watts maximum continuous (625 watts peak)
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms
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Sir TaL, ran across your posting of this subject on AK, seems to be some real turds on that forum.
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System matching is important. Its a real treat when things click. Honestly, in most of my audio journey things did seem to click
nicely. Only one real standout failure. My Decware SET and a pair of Kef Uni-Q Speakers. Took them home just for that reason...an overnight trial run. Had to return them the next day. Chasing system synergy is fun. But it can also drive you
nuts and if you dont watch yourself you'll soon spend lots of time and money only to circle back to what you originally had.
Oh, one of my real standout successes was a Jolida 302 tube amp and a set of Meadowlark Kestral speakers. This just
clicked instantly. Musical from the get go.
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Scorpio, here is the info on the Tangent 300s...
http://www.klipsch.com/tangent-300/details (http://www.klipsch.com/tangent-300/details)
Frequency Response: 38Hz-20kHz(+-)3dB
SENSITIVITY: 96dB @ 1watt/1meter
POWER HANDLING: 125 watts maximum continuous (625 watts peak)
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms
Thanks. Put three albums through them so far. Sturgill Simpson, so so. Grateful Dead In The Dark, very good. Metallica Master of Puppets, no no no that ain't no good. For side two of Master I turned both the Klipschs and the Sansui SP 1200s on at the same time, using a Niles selector. There might be something to that. Testing shall continue...
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Sir TaL, ran across your posting of this subject on AK, seems to be some real turds on that forum.
Nah, just a couple, like any big board.
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Sir TaL, ran across your posting of this subject on AK, seems to be some real turds on that forum.
We're here too. Sometimes we keep quiet and lurk. >:D
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STaL let me borrow the Tangents mentioned above. I was very interested to try out the Klipsch sound and after almost two weeks of listening I'm not sure they're for me. My main listening system is a Jolida FX10 tube amp, Yaquin tube pre, Dual 1229, Niles speaker switch. So that's where I tried them out. These speakers are very sensitive and get loud. They also get right in your face like a pushy salesman. And that juste kills it for me. I like more laid back, not sure where the sound is coming from speakers. These Klipschs are not transparent.
Then I took off the ATN-150MLX cart and put on a Shure M95ED with a Jico SAS. Things sounded much better. The highs were tamed and not as overbearing. Cymbals on the AT cart can get obnoxiously shimmery. The mids and lows were tighter. I want to like these speakers, but after about 15 minutes they just hurt too much. I prefer my Sansui's or Bostons.
I did try them with other amps in the house, they sounded best with a NAD 7120. The other higher wattage amps in the house just make them too in your face and the music seems to lose detail. Perhaps they like bigger rooms? My living room has a vaulted ceiling which is about 16' at the center. I'll give them a try in there before dropping the back off.
Can I write off Klipsch based on just these speakers or do I need to test other models?
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IMHO you need to test other models. I like my Hereseys better than I like these. As I mentioned above, I am also considering the titanium domes to see if that makes them a little less "in your face" (an assessment I agree with, BTW).
Maybe I can let you check out the Hereseys when you bring back the Tangents. It would give me an excuse to use the Tangents in my main listening area for a couple weeks.
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8w's choruses sound very good as well, and I have yet to hear since he rebuilt the crossovers. Don't write them off yet
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8W's Choruses sounded great before and absolutely divine after his crossover build.
333: I'm a mere neophyte compared to most on the board, but I think you might want to try either a Heritage model or a Quartet/Forte/Chorus, especially with lower power tubes before you write off all Klipsch speakers. I agree, to some degree -esp. at high volume-, that Klipsch can be assertive and tiring, but they also have incredible presence, soundstage and ability to let individual voices/instruments shine like nothing else I've heard.... thus far, at least.
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Low powered tube amps generally have a very low electrical damping factor. Klipsch Heritage speakers generally a very high mechanical damping factor.
Put the two together, and magic happens.
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Dammit, I was hoping I could close the door on Klipsch, but you guys keep opening it back up.
Since there seems to be a pretty good knowledge of them here, where would the KG4's place in the lineup? My assumption is above the Tangent, but below Heresy's or Heritage's.
That pair up in Ligonier tickled my curiosity, but not for $200 if I have to turn around and resell them.
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Again, not the expert, but I kinda wanna say -depending on drivers, construction quality and the like, along with your other components- that KG4's might be a little less impressive that Heresys, and the Q/F/C line up, as the KGs are 2-way speakers.
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Dammit, I was hoping I could close the door on Klipsch, but you guys keep opening it back up.
Since there seems to be a pretty good knowledge of them here, where would the KG4's place in the lineup? My assumption is above the Tangent, but below Heresy's or Heritage's.
That pair up in Ligonier tickled my curiosity, but not for $200 if I have to turn around and resell them.
Of course we're going to praise Klipsch and his speakers, that's what we own. Much the same that Carl will praise Polk and bearjew will suggest Carver. It's all a matter of taste, of finding a sound that you like and going from there.
As RT said, the KG 4 is a two way. I have never heard the Epic line of Klipsch speakers, but, in general, Klipsch 2 way speakers have strong bass and sound excellent above 3000 Hz, but there is a slight midrange deficiency (although it probably won't be noticeable until you compare them to a set of speakers from the Heritage line).
I'd offer $150. When they deny it, tell them $175. At that price, you'll be able to resell them if you are unhappy.
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So scorpio has my Hereseys now. It is good for him to get a proper audition. It is also good for me to get the Tangents back and put them in the main system where I am familiar with the room and the associated gear.
I'm listening to "All Directions" by The Temptations now. It is said that two way horn systems have to make a bit of compromise and these are no exception. However, they don't make the compromise I expected. I thought there would be a bit of a "hole" in the mids, but instead the horn reaches right down to the woofer. The compromise comes at the top shimmer of the hi-hat that drives this track. I just listened to it earlier in the day on the Hereseys, so the comparison is still fresh in my mind. It's almost like listening to the Hereseys with just woofer and mid. It kind of surprises me since the Tangents have a 1" driver, but this is what my ears are telling me.
Listening to a Porky cut Zepplin IV (ZOSO) and the mids are very pronounced. Plant's vocal sounds great but Bonham's snare is really hot. Not the snares themselves, but the skin. At least on Black Dog, that's all I've heard so far.
8W, tell me exactly what you did to your Hereseys. While I have them out of the system is a good time to order the caps etc and make a game plan for refurb when they come back but before they get placed back into the system. Thanks.
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"Four Sticks" sounds amazing!
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"Lucinda Williams" was definitely a little forward sounding, but "I Am Shelby Lynne" sounds great.
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8W, tell me exactly what you did to your Hereseys. While I have them out of the system is a good time to order the caps etc and make a game plan for refurb when they come back but before they get placed back into the system. Thanks.
I recapped them with Dayton 2 uF 1% precision audio caps. I also used 1/4 foam weather strip adhesive to serve as a gasket for the rear baffle. the 1/4 inch stuff fits perfectly between the screw holes and the sides of the cabinet.
When I put the new woofers in, i'm most likely going to attempt to reinforce the cabinets via cross bracing and stiffening up the rear baffle.
Check and make sure the woofers, mids, and tweeters are all screwed down tight. One good drop or jolt can effect that.
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Thanks. That's easy enough. For some reason I thought you did something with the inductors as well.
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Nah. Those were the other Klipsch XO's. >:D
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8WOF, did you use the "Armacell" Brand weather stripping sold at Lowe's and Home Depot? This brand seems to be the brand of choice right now for the speaker DIY refurb and upgrade guys.
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It was a few months ago, but, I believe it was Frost King.
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Got STaL's Heresy's hooked up. Loudest speaker I've had in this house on the 10w tubes. Night and day difference between these and the Tangents. Put about five records through them. Heard new things on Wish You Were Here I haven't heard before. They have soundstage, very nice front to back depth, and are seemingly transparent in the room. I did find that turning my sub on helped fill things out. The sub isn't necessary, but for loud listening I like it on. These are still a bit on the bright side. Picked up a new, sealed Savoy Brown Make Me Sweat for 4.99…bright bright bright, but I attribute that to the late 80's recording style. Hope to get time to run a bunch of variety through them
Now that I've had a short listen to these I'm curious how some of you would compare them to Forte's or perhaps Chorus's
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I've never owned Fortes or Choruses, but if you think those are loud you need to check out LaScalas or K-Horns. In my AV Dept in college we monitored with LaScalas, and you could drive them to very comfortable listening levels with the headphone jack on a cassette Walkman.
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I've never owned Fortes or Choruses, but if you think those are loud you need to check out LaScalas or K-Horns. In my AV Dept in college we monitored with LaScalas, and you could drive them to very comfortable listening levels with the headphone jack on a cassette Walkman.
The La Scala is 104 dB @ 1w / 1m. The Chorus is 101 dB @ 1w / 1m. A Chorus with 2 watts of input program will play as loudly as a La Scala with 1 watt of input program.
A K-Horn is 105 dB @ 1w / 1m. You'd need to put somewhere in the ballpark of 3 watts into a Chorus to make it play as loud as a K-Horn with 1 watt of input program.
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In other words my monster 10 watts will implode ear drums? Hehe. I normally don't have a chance to play loud. Sitting on the couch about 6' away from each speaker, volume knob at 50% my phone gives an average of 88db for whatever that's worth. My ears tell me it's loud enough.
My wife is pretty patient. However, I don't think she's LaScala patient.
Playing around with the Heresys and the .28 input vs .7, .28 seems to tame the highs nicely.
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Don't get too used to them. I miss them already (but am having fun with the Tangents).
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They are fun little speakers, but lack the full spectrum generosity of floorstanding Klipsch speakers.
Having recently changed the old AlNiCo tweeters in my Cornwalls to Crites CT-125s, I was thinking perhaps I'd slap the old tweeters into the Heresys. The match of the Heresys with 'mellower' tweets and the Maggie 8800 amp might provide the ultimate mid range sweetness for the jazz I listen to most.
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Which tweeters are in your Hereseys?
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Oh, and scorpio has the right idea about using his sub with them. That combo does give "full spectrum generosity". (A very compelling terminology, BTW.)
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My Heresys had/have ceramic K-77-Ms, vs the AlNiCo K-77s in the Cornwall.