Vintage HiFi Audio Forum
Audio Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: tinpan on August 30, 2014, 08:53:10 AM
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Well, there is a certain pair of Altec Lansing 828 cabinets floating around and rather than answer a few questions about getting them in an operational state in PM, I thought I would bounce the topic out to a thread.
They are a wonderful speaker if you are looking for a live music sound. They really shine with live jazz recordings, vocals and acoustic music. Rock and roll doesn't just doesn't work on these speakers. If you are looking for speakers where you can shake your neighbor's walls, these are not for you. That being said, with the right music they are my go to speakers.
(http://images108.fotki.com/v1629/photos/6/111916/12628482/IMG_4900-vi.jpg)
This is basically what the speakers should look like. You'll see the Altec 828 bass bin which is a bass reflex design and holds a 416 driver.
(http://images109.fotki.com/v779/photos/6/111916/12628482/AltecN5018a-vi.jpg)
On the back of the speaker cabinet you will usually find a the N501-8a crossover
(http://images109.fotki.com/v779/photos/6/111916/12628482/IMG_0680-vi.jpg)
On top you will find the 511b horn. The 5 in the 511 tells you it's 500Hz horn where as an 811 will tell you it's an 800Hz horn
(http://images15.fotki.com/v587/photos/6/111916/12628482/IMG_0679-vi.jpg)
Here's a shot of a pair of horns with the horn drivers mounted
(http://images59.fotki.com/v791/photos/6/111916/12628482/IMG_0678-vi.jpg)
You can see here the horns drivers are 808-8a driver.
Both the bass driver and the horn drivers are usually 8 Ohm thought there are also 16 Ohm versions out there as well. We'll delve into that later.
In addition to finding N501-8a crossovers, you can also make them yourself or like I did I had someone make them for me.
(http://images60.fotki.com/v361/photos/6/111916/12628482/IMG_23272-vi.jpg)
Mine were made by Digital Pete
(http://images51.fotki.com/v278/photos/6/111916/12628482/20130211_1423262-vi.jpg)
Here you can see the crossover and all the components as well as the Lpad ( The silver thing) which doesn't have the knob installed.
Basically, this is a 2 way design. The crossover feed everything below 500Hz to the bass bins and everything above to the horns. You use the Lpad to balance the load between the horn driver and the bass bin
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Usually I'll set up one speaker to where it sounds nice and then balance the horn on the other speaker to the first speaker, this matches the speakers as well as you can and really helps you focus the speakers.
Now, I keep getting hit with questions about using a Klipsch crossover like a Heresy and making these 3 way speakers. I'm sure it's been done but I haven't seen one. My thinking is as follows: the strength of the A7 is the midrange and the mid bass. That's where a lot of the music information is and the 2 way configuration really dials that sound it. With a Klipsch crossover there aren't any lpads so you can change the load from horn to bass driver and the crossover points are all wrong so you can use one but it won't sound good at all. I believe the crossover on the Heresy's are 850 Hz and 5000.
I gotta run but I'll get into this a little more later
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Awesome, Tinpan. Great info and informative picture to soak in!
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Adding an l-pad is quite simple enough. I think the bigger issue is where to cross into the high frequency driver so as to not disturb those buttery mids. If i were to turn those into a 3-way, I would go very high, like 10k high. That would give help to the top octave without disturbing them where they shine.
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It should be interesting. As it stands, when they land in FayCo, I'll be using Heresy crossovers/tweeters one way or another... it's what I have and these A7s have no extant XO. It certainly won't sound like it 'should', but I can at least get something of a feel for them -and whether they might suit my needs for jazz- whilst I decide what to do... build an XO, buy an XO, replace the squakers or not, etc. etc.
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Another option you fine folks may not know of is a Minidsp 2x4. Google that. Cost is about $135 if I remember correctly, but it enables you to create custom crossover points and slopes as well as many channels of parametric eq for fine-tuning. Also independent delays and out outs (replace lpad) for each woofer or tweeter. Only downside is that you need 4 channels of amplification rather than 2, I use a relatively cheap Adcom 4 channel amp for my setup. It was awesome for when I had an Alex Lansing coaxial I wanted to test out, and I now use it for a custom built 2-way.
Just food for thought!
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I have heard Tinpan's VOTT's, and I will 100% vouch that they are absolutely astounding speakers. They're definitely not your typical animal, and I don't think they'd like rock blasting out of them, but they have a HUGE sound and they are sweet in all the right spots.
and AdamG, yeah, those minidsp's are cool as shit. my new speakers are going to have them.
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I'm passing them on to RT. He's a jazz fanatic. 8)
I listen to 99.99% rock and roll. No matter what I'd do to them, they wouldn't be for me. >:D
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I love the sound of these speakers. I heard my first set in 1969. They sound fantastic. They are truly one of a kind. But A7 cabinets in a living room really?
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I could never get away with the VOTTs in my room, but am happy to be "allowed" the cat coffins I have.
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As a soon-to-be divorced man (non-gear related, LOL) I look forward to the time in the near future with the 'Wall of Sound"...... Cornwalls flanking A7s!
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Sorry to hear that, Tom.
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Thank you kind Sir Thrifty! It's all better this way in the long run, whether or not it's difficult now.
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However, I am inviting myself to come hear the wall of sound when it is completed.
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I'd be more than happy to have you here anytime you find yourself in FayetteNam, Thrifty.
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(http://images15.fotki.com/v1626/photos/6/111916/12628482/front001-vi.jpg)
Here's what mine looked like when I got them. I fashioned new boards on the front and added a black screen, which you can see in the top picture.
Finished A7 VOTTS typically go for around $1,200 plus of minus a couple hundred bucks depending on condition and new diaphragms.
(http://images108.fotki.com/v1629/photos/6/111916/12628482/IMG_7049-vi.jpg)
The other direction you can go is to make the A5 VOTTS. You use the same bass bin and crossover but you find a pair of ALtec 288c drivers ( 8 Ohm) and 203, 803 or 1003 horns.
(http://images20.fotki.com/v681/photos/6/111916/12628482/IMG_7045-vi.jpg)
I used the 803 horn, the 8 tells you it's an 8 cell horn and the 3 tells you it's rated for 300Hz.203 is a 2 cell horn and 1003 is a 10 cell horn.
Plan on spending $400 to $600 for the pair of 288 drivers and $250 to $300 for each horn. The good news bad news on these costs is you have to spend that to get these parts unless you get lucky, the good news is you can get your money out of them later if you decide to sell them. Probably make a little if you hang onto the for a while.
I was really surprised at the 803/288 combination. I thought the sound was smoother and better balanced. The imaging was far superior to the 511b's. The 203's tend to through the sound forward so you need a long room to hear them. The 803 and the 1003 horns are just right.
(http://images59.fotki.com/v791/photos/6/111916/12628482/IMG_0315-vi.jpg)
This is what my living room looks like. The downside of the divorce...well there are many, but once it's over, there is a lot of upside.