Vintage HiFi Audio Forum
Audio Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: MajorPain on November 21, 2009, 12:04:30 AM
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Someone please enlighten me.
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901's are okay and everything else sucks!
Well let me resay that....901's with lots of power and a good sub are okay.
Well they do make a good noise cancelling headphones.
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It's a burgh thing I guess.
Those are the same folks drive drive a rusted out Regal or Camaro
with the speakers sitting up on the rear deck.
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I'm with you guys on the whole BOSE thing. It's really just the company markets themselves the right way.
I mean.....lets face it, the company advertises like crazy and they are to be commended for that.
They're on TV, the radio, magazines, and in cars and trucks for christ sake. Think about it !
All it takes is for someone to be wooed by their own, or even a friends Bose car stereo system and almost immediately they think that everything else that the company makes must be just as good if not better, right ?.....If Bose is in a Cadillac or Infiniti it must be good, right ? It's just the way most people(sheep)think and are unfortunately.....
So thank you Tom for even having Vintage Hi-Fi in existance and thank you as well to all the other high end specialty stereo and video stores in and around the city of Pittsburgh.
Just My Thoughts.......BILL
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I have a pair of 901's series IV (they were free, had to refoam) I would trade for a pair of AR3's in a heartbeat
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Tom, are you saying the 901's make good noise cancelling headphones?
I guess they would, but how do you keep them on your head? ;D
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Looking at your avatar you also have the same issue! :P
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I am not a fan of Bose but I do have a pair of 901's ver III in my garage. I appreciate their ability to reflect sound no matter where I stand or move in the garage.
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901's are one of the few models I like. I have a set if series IV's to refurb with cloth surrounds this winter. I can't wait for that fun to start.
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I re-foamed my ver III's last year. Seemed like I was in a production run on re-foaming. I wore blisters on my fingertips from seating the foams.
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I have a pair of 901's series IV (they were free, had to refoam) I would trade for a pair of AR3's in a heartbeat
That would be a fair trade.
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BOSE BLOSE. 'Nuff said.
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Tom, you don't understand Pittsburgh. Blose and Marantz rule here. The majority of people around here NEVER heard of Carver before.
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If you hook a pair to a 55 at 380/rms and run a sub with a 35 bridged at 700/rms you gonna get some BIG sound out of a shoebox speaker compared to others.
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If you hook a pair to a 55 at 380/rms and run a sub with a 35 bridged at 700/rms you gonna get some BIG sound out of a shoebox speaker compared to others.
Kingman, This is Pittsburgh. :-X Blose and Marantz don't make amps that big.
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Carver sure do!!! What's up with this Pittsburgh stuff anyway??? You got the Steelers and hockey...you wanna be greedy and have Carver products too??? ;D :P ;D
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Carver sure do!!! What's up with this Pittsburgh stuff anyway??? You got the Steelers and hockey...you wanna be greedy and have Carver products too??? ;D :P ;D
Yes!
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How about this to make a pair of 901s sound good? Incorporate an attenuated tweeter on the front baffle to compensate for the roll off at 2k, and design a box with the same shape and throw a 12 in to compensate for the roll off at 100 hz? The box could act as a stand. The soundstage would still be large, but there wouldn't be as much distortion and you would lose the need for the eq. The only drawback would be the creation of a sweet spot for frequencies abobe 2k.
Or just treat them like an overpriced pair of CVs, crank them up, and ignore the shoddy and colored sound.
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Someone please enlighten me.
'Cause the are part of the brainwashed, sheeple that believe every GD thing that's on the internet and everything they read in advertising. They probably voted for Obama too.
The very best of what I have heard from BOSE is what I would consider a "white van" set-up.
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Hello All,
I hate to admit, but during my misspent youth, I owned several Bose Speakers (901&501 series 1). The 901's are a pretty good party speaker with enough power, and I actually liked the 501s. I grew up and my taste changed!
I also heard good things about the original 601, thogh I resent that Amar put Microacoustics out of business as I understand it. They originally had a speaker much like the 601 (before bose as I remember).
Never liked the newer 01 line up and have not been impressed with their sub-sat combos.
Confessionally yours,
Dale
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I do not know why MajorPain. My dad said they are junk.
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I listened to a set of AM-5'S(in a local stereo shop hooked up to a new m1.0t) cool concept but did not like the sound very much.
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Tom, you don't understand Pittsburgh. Blose and Marantz rule here. The majority of people around here NEVER heard of Carver before.
I'm sorry to hear that.
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901's are okay and everything else sucks!
...I'm with Huffman. If they suck so much, how did you get that opinion? Either you bought them because you thought they sounded good, or you just read it and went with the opinion of others never having heard them. I know alot of Carver fans have a pair stuck back somewhere but few will openly admit it.
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Several months ago, a friend bought one of the line array / sub combos, for DJ use. Pure mono, but it suited his purposes as he plays old rockabilly, etc. He used it one night and returned it the next day; it just wasn't right. He's still using some old Yamaha's or Peavey's; I really don't know which, but even they sound better than that Bose crap. ;D
I suspect he'd like a set-up like my smallest mobile system; Klipsch KP-250's w/ KP-115's, juiced by a Macrotech 3600. I already have lent him a 3600 when his amp shit the bed at a Mattress Factory gig. Someday he'll get the good stuff. Another friend has a 250/2115 setup and is positively ecstatic about it. No Bose for him. 8) Of course, he's only been DJ'ing since 1964, so he may change his mind. ???
Bill Cain
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Its Dr. Amar "I'll sue you if you don't like my speakers" Bose
He threatened to sue a reviewer once for giving his speakers a bad review.
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Several months ago, a friend bought one of the line array / sub combos, for DJ use. Pure mono, but it suited his purposes as he plays old rockabilly, etc. He used it one night and returned it the next day; it just wasn’t right. He’s still using some old Yamaha’s or Peavey’s; I really don’t know which, but even they sound better than that Bose crap. ;D
I suspect he’d like a set-up like my smallest mobile system; Klipsch KP-250’s w/ KP-115’s, juiced by a Macrotech 3600. I already have lent him a 3600 when his amp shit the bed at a Mattress Factory gig. Someday he’ll get the good stuff. Another friend has a 250/2115 setup and is positively ecstatic about it. No Bose for him. 8) Of course, he's only been DJ'ing since 1964, so he may change his mind. ???
Bill Cain...Bill have you ever seen a pair of
901's or heard them?
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Someone please enlighten me.
'Cause the are part of the brainwashed, sheeple that believe every GD thing that's on the internet and everything they read in advertising. They probably voted for Obama too.
The very best of what I have heard from BOSE is what I would consider a "white van" set-up.
Hmm...well, I voted for Obama, and I've never owned a pair of Bose speakers in my life, so there goes that theory. They're not my favorite by any means, but they aren't horrible either in my opinion.
I don't understand the obsession that some folks have for Cerwin Vega speakers. Unless you just want to pound the shit out of them, I don't get the attraction.
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I don't understand the obsession that some folks have for Cerwin Vega speakers. Unless you just want to pound the shit out of them, I don't get the attraction.
+1
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Tom, you don't understand Pittsburgh. Blose and Marantz rule here. The majority of people around here NEVER heard of Carver before.
Is there a problem with Marantz?
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Is there a problem with Marantz?
...I hope not...trying to get one soon.... ;D
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Bill have you ever seen a pair of
901's or heard them?
Have you ever considered a career in international diplomacy? ;D
Around my house, I'll stick with my shitty Dahlquist DQ10's, Klipsch Heresy's or Advents. Outside, I'll stick with my cheap EAW FR253's/SB180's/JBL 2505's, Klipsch LSIBG Industrial LaScala's or Klipsch KP250's and KP115's. Bose 901's are, in my humble opinion, the perfect triumph of marketing over reality. Anyone postulating that 901's are "special" must be Dana Carvey's illigitimate offspring.
I'll stick with what works, thank you.
Bill Cain
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I had a pair of Dalquists and blew them up. I appreciate your honesty, but I beg to differ sir...We crossed????
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Bill, while I agree with most of what you said, I feel compelled to point out that you never actually answered Kingman's question.
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The thing about Bose is that they largely use EQ and other gimmicks to get around the physical limitations of the crappy little things they produce. How much material is in one of those Wave table radios? It can't cost more than ten dollars to produce. If they sold the stuff at Soundesign prices like they should, they would be legendary for producing the most cost effective sound gear on the planet. But they don't. Instead they market (and price) the stuff to compete with legitimate high end gear. To even think that their toy speakers and fixed EQ boxes are in the same league with even good consumer stuff is beyond preposterous to me.
BTW, I have heard 901s, but it was quite a while ago. I just recently spent a day with one of their new line array PAs and it sucked. Hard. I wanted it to be good. A PA that you can carry in one hand seems a dream. It still is.
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I agree with most of what is being said about Bose stuff. The components are mostly crap. That aside, the Bose 301 and the early 501s were pretty clever designs that made the most of the shitty stuff they were made of. The 301s, well positioned, could be made to be very satisfying for rock. IMO anyway.
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Bill, while I agree with most of what you said, I feel compelled to point out that you never actually answered Kingman's question.
Compelled, eh?
OK, I've seen them and heard them. I'm not stupid enough to buy them.
Next? ;D
Bill Cain
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I had a pair of Dalquists and blew them up. I appreciate your honesty, but I beg to differ sir...We crossed????
Why am I not surprised? Bose is perfect for you.
WTF do you beg to differ about? And WTF is "crossed?" Inquiring minds want to know. 8)
Bill Cain
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Here is the link to the greatest bose debunking ever. A well informed audiophile takes apart bose on a point by point basis.
http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html (http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html)
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WTF do you beg to differ about? And WTF is "crossed?" Inquiring minds want to know.
....Have you ever considered a career in international diplomacy?
...why Bill...you appear to be angry? I beg to differ that 901's are junk. Crossed is in disagreement. No...I feel you might be better suited for that job!!!! :laugh:
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In the early 80s my dad sold his L65 Jubals for a pair of 901s. Shortly after he sold the 901s for SDA1s which he still has to this day. He sees the bose purchase as one of his worst mistakes in audio. I vaguely remember them. I was 5 when he got the Polks. I heard 901s again a few years ago and they sound ok. Considering the crappy drivers they use, it's actually amazing they sound as good as they do. Their price is outrageous though. They cost the same as the SDA-1s in their day, and the polks are in a whole different league. I think if bose weren't so over-priced, they wouldn't get such a bad rep in audio circles.
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Here is the link to the greatest bose debunking ever. A well informed audiophile takes apart bose on a point by point basis.
http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html (http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html)
Thanks for a great link. ;D
It puts into concise language what most (of us) know, almost intuitively.
Those paper tweeters and woofers are a fraud perpetrated upon anyone putting faith in Bose advertisements.
Sorry to be harsh about any manufacturer, but Bose deserves all the credit I can give them.
They provide NO PERFORMANCE SPECS for any of their products.
Wonder why? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Bill Cain
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I beg to differ that 901's are junk.
As I didn't say "901's were junk," why would you attribute that to me? ;D I know that things can get confusing.
I did refer to Bose L1 speakers as "crap" and I stand by that assessment. Here's why:
I have friends who use them for PA work in a live environment and they are passable, as their instruments add enough direct fidelity to the mix. However, if you play pre-recorded (records, CD's) music through them, they sound like crap. They just can't reproduce the material accurately, or with dynamics. And that's Bose's "latest and greatest" system. Sorry......
BoSe puts the BS into audio gear......
Bill Cain
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I did refer to Bose L1 speakers as "crap" and I stand by that assessment
..I have never heard them so I cannot comment. My experience has only been with the 901 series 1 and 2 both of which are acoustic suspension models and they do sound crappy unless you have at least 250 watts into them. I bought mine at bargain prices so the investment was nowhere the new price of I think $1200! I do think that price is rediculious.
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My experience has been with the Bose 301 and the Bose double cube things and the high end and next down sets of out door speakers.
My take on it is:
- bought the 301's in a pawn shop around 1998. I have them hooked to my treadmill system and they sound great.
- don't have the 4 Bose double cubes hooked up at the moment I bought off ebay, but they sound great every time I have needed them.
- the high end Bose outdoor speakers will please most anyone. The next down are a little bright and I have often used them inside with a sub.
If you by new, Bose might be over priced, but few here buy new (I hope). At a fair price they are OK. If you can find better, go with that, but just to out of hand dismiss Bose because it is the geeky thing to do makes no sense.
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<snip> but just to out of hand dismiss Bose because it is the geeky thing to do makes no sense.
Give me a single, honest reason BoSe does not publish specs..... for anything..... :laugh: Must be the geek in me.
That said, buying BoSe stuff at 5% of MSRP is good, because that's what it is actually worth.
I try to buy stuff on the cheap, also. I just picked up a Dorrough 1200B stereo signal test set for $128; about 10% of MSRP. ;D
Bill Cain
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It is best to buy with "ears" not specs, but many of us must rely on things like specs, reviews and opinion.
Bose don't publish specs because they don't want to compete in that market. They have product in show rooms across the USA in reach of everyone.
I never said Bose was the best choice, or the best for the money. I just say they make speakers that sound good.
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It is best to buy with "ears" not specs, but many of us must rely on things like specs, reviews and opinion.
Bose don't publish specs because they don't want to compete in that market. They have product in show rooms across the USA in reach of everyone.
On Tuesday, I had just set up the equipment for our Vinyl Collector's meeting. Steven Jance was cranking up a 78 and Fred Bohn mentioned to me that it sounded "digital." Hmmmmm. WTF did he mean? Yes, it sounded a little harsh, maybe some odd-order harmonics? The dbx DriveRack was clipping a little. Whoops. So I reduced the mixer output and turned up the MacroTech 3600. Problem solved. The guys know to watch out for the clip lights on the mixer & outboard EQ, I just screwed up with the amp gain.
So, yes, the ears are the final arbiter......
However, to dismiss specs is to jump down BoSe's rabbit hole of ignorance.
BoSe markets to those who don't know any better.... they prey on ignorance and that's why audiophiles hate BoSe.....
Any company, which sells a product that preys on the ignorance of people, is a bad company.....
Bill Cain
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A market study published in March 2006 by the independent market research firm Forrester Research reported that Bose's brand name was among the three computer and electronics brands most trusted by US consumers.[59]...Bose has contracts with the U.S. military (Navy,[10] Air Force[11] and Army[12]) and NASA.[13
...Any company, which sells a product that preys on the ignorance of people, is a bad company.....
...It appears some as I tend to differ with your opinion. Such as the Army, Navy, Air Force and NASA!
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We've said all along that it is a price vs performance issue. I would think and hope that The Army pays significantly less for a Wave Radio than we do (unless Bose bought off the Chair of the Armed Services Committee).
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It appears some as I tend to differ with your opinion. Such as the Army, Navy, Air Force and NASA!
You make no mention of WHAT was sold. ;D Or if it even WAS sold. Or given away.
Previously, someone derided Dahlquist DQ10's because they destroyed them.
Such clowns morons wonderful people deserve nothing better than BoSe.
After all, BoSe is good enough for those that can't tell the difference.
Bill Cain
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Previously, someone derided Dahlquist DQ10's because they destroyed them.
Such clowns morons wonderful people deserve nothing better than BoSe.
...I guess I am the "MORON" you are refering to...let's clear that up...1) I never said I destroyed them, I simply blew the fuse by overpowering them. Hence the phrase "blew them up". 2) I never put down Dahlguist speakers...on the flip I think they were great speakers. 3) I doubt you would call me a moron to my face...I don't take personal attacks too well...and if you want to continue down that road I'll be happy to oblige you 4) your opinion is just that...a forum is a place to discuss issues, not to name call. 5) As F1 would say..."buy a vowel".
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Previously, someone derided Dahlquist DQ10's because they destroyed them.
Such clowns morons wonderful people deserve nothing better than BoSe.
After all, BoSe is good enough for those that can't tell the difference.
...I guess I am the "MORON" you are refering to...let's clear that up...1) I never said I destroyed them, I simply blew the fuse by overpowering them. Hence the phrase "blew them up". 2) I never put down Dahlguist speakers...on the flip I think they were great speakers. 3) I doubt you would call me a moron to my face...I don't take personal attacks too well...and if you want to continue down that road I'll be happy to oblige you 4) your opinion is just that...a forum is a place to discuss issues, not to name call. 5) As F1 would say..."buy a vowel".
Gollee, glad you cleared that up.... Made me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Anyone who "blew up" a pair of Dahlquists (or ANY speaker) and then used that act of rank stupidity as justification for the "superiority" of BoSe junk, is a f**king moron, IMNSHO.
However, since you have subsequently "revised" your narrative from "blew them up" to "blew a fuse," I must now admit that "moron" or "clown" may not fully describe you. I applaud your wisdom in using the correct fuses; it's always good when such technically astute actions are taken. ;D
Bill Cain
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A trash talking idiot of your caliber has no feelings and deserves no respect from me or anyone on this forum. You also are a FN prick. ;) Wake up and smell what they call reality.
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Heard a pair of 151s today hooked up to a crappy receiver and they did not suck. Didn't blow me away either, but I wasn't on the verge of vomit...
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A trash talking idiot of your caliber has no feelings and deserves no respect from me or anyone on this forum. You also are a FN prick. ;) Wake up and smell what they call reality.
No point king. People with that level of self indulgence and self righteousness just need to be ignored. There's no level of bat heading that will bring them down to earth. Lost cause.
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A trash talking idiot of your caliber has no feelings and deserves no respect from me or anyone on this forum. You also are a FN prick. ;) Wake up and smell what they call reality.
Hey, "kingman," here's my address and phone number:
400 Fort Couch Road
Upper St Clair, PA 15241
412-835-4454
I'll be at Vintage H-Fi on Monday evening.
Tell me all about your problems.
I'll see what I can do to fix them.
Bill Cain
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Bill;
Why so hostile? Lay down and put a cool compress on your forehead. It will be alright.
- Mark
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Bill;
Why so hostile? Lay down and put a cool compress on your forehead. It will be alright.
- Mark
LOL ;D Not hostile at all. Just trying to open lines of communications.
"kingman" seems to have problems and maybe I can fix them. :laugh:
He went from blowing up speakers to blowing a fuse to calling me a trash talker.
I want to help the good man, in any way I can, resolve his problems.
That's why we're on this Earth; to help each other.
Bill Cain
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Bill, you probably are a nice guy........but you come sometimes across abrasive on this forum. You and F1Nut must be cut from the same cloth.
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Bill
You seem to feel the need to show hostility and anger toward other members of this group. Can you behave in a more peaceful manner and stop attacking the folks that disagree with your opinions? These discussions aren't a contest that someone must win.
Ron
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Honestly, I gave up hope for Bill Cain when he dropped an F bomb and called me a moron on my facebook wall for my friends, family, students, and professors to see.
And yes, it was over a difference of opinions.
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Tell me all about your problems.
...It's pretty obvious who has the problem. Act your age and not your IQ. This forum is for all to express their opinion and your 30 seconds are up. Again...refer to my previous post.
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This had gone on long enough. I'm locking this thread