Vintage HiFi Audio Forum
Audio Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: MacGeek on November 06, 2011, 09:27:09 PM
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I have been thinking of intoducing some digital to my 2 channel analog rig. Anyone have a recommendation for a good value DAC in the $500-$1000 price range (less is always better, but I don't want to sacrifice performance just for price).
I would like to use it to update the D/A from my CD player (coax digital out only) as well as some thing like the Logitech Squeezebox. Ultimately, I want to be able to listen to the Hi Rez stuff about which I have been reading. I prefer something I can buy locally, versus over the internet, although for good used gear anything goes. Thanks.
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i recently picked up a Theta Pro Gen V and extremely pleased with it. I think it could serve you well, since i am going to use mine for the same purposes you mentioned. Also, Tom just so happens to have one sitting at the shop. Just saying. Nick
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I highly recommend the Benchmark DAC-1 w/USB input. Retail is higher than your target but you can find them cheaper than that.
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Here's one for $1100. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Benchmark-Dac1-USB-da-converter-premium-sound-card-/260886395064?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbe0a78b8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Benchmark-Dac1-USB-da-converter-premium-sound-card-/260886395064?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbe0a78b8)
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I really like the Eastern Electric Tube DAC. There are two on Agon right now for $600 and change. They go quickly though.
I also like the Grant Fidelity Tube Dac for a couple hundred bucks.
Gary's BenchMark DAC is very nice and you can also look for Cambridge Audio Majis DACs for $ 300 and change on Agon
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Thanks, all. I heard about the Benchmark; I understand it's direct (internet/mail) only and want to listen before I buy. A friend suggested the PS Audio Perfect Wave. I may start with the Theta, when Tom's back and feeling better.
I guess another challenge is what and how to find/download the hi-rez music.
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'nuther vote for the Benchmark
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There's a brick & mortar place in Baltimore that sells the Benchmark, or DID 3 years ago....
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...and another vote for the Benchmark. I had a PS Audio, and a modified tube DAC from GR Research. The Benchmark stayed, and I have no desire to change.
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I mostly do digital music, but do have a nice record collection.
I have four Dacs. They are good for different applications.
Here on the porch I have a BenchMark Dac-1 Pre. It is just excellent, but is not cheap. I have it matched to good components.
I have an old FUBAR I put new opamps in still running my bed room computer TV movies.
I have a tiny one tube Dac for my netbook -> cute as hell, and also one that just looks like a thumb drive. I can't hear a difference, but I play the net book mostly on my boat with lesser quality gear.
I wanted one for my main system to upgrade my vintage CD players. Since they are worth little (but I like 'em), searched long and hard. An older quality CD player with a modern DAC is better than many high end players from just a couple years back.
I bought this one: http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Grant-Fidelity-TubeDAC-11-D-A-Converter.html (http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Grant-Fidelity-TubeDAC-11-D-A-Converter.html)
This is very good for the price $325, and is the latest thing out there. If I need another or need to replace any of the above, would get another of these.
For sound improvement, it is hard to beat. I have not done a head on comparison with my other Dacs as they all work well in the systems they occupy. A DAC is just one piece of the puzzle and should be matched to what you have.
Still, I highly suggest you or anyone give this a try before paying a bundle. Dacs are in demand, and the tech of it all is improving rapidly. A used $3000 DAC (or high end CD player) from a few years back goes now on ebay for a few hundred and that is a joke unless you need the name bragging rights. I think DAC improvement has been the giant step over the last years. I also think adding a better DAC to your system is the best bang for the buck.
If you can, get the BenchMark of course, but I doubt there is a thousand dollar different in my BenchMark and this tube job. You can upgrade it just by rolling tubes.
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I checked the Grant Fidelity site and also an Audio Karma thread and the Tube Dac-11 sounds almost too good to be true for the $325 shipped price, which is not a bad thing by the way. I know it only matters to my (very fussy) ears, but here is the loaded question. Do you think I will be happy with it, as both a D/A upgrade to my MAC CD players internal D/A (instead using it as a transport) and as a D/A for hi rez digital.
My main system has always been a pretty hi resolution pure analog rig and I wonder how the DAC will sound compared to both vinyl and the CD player (it is about 20 years old). Digital and tubes for that matter are all new to me.
At a minimum, the Tube Dac 11 may be a cheap way to get into the game and at relatively low risk, assuming I can always sell it and cut my losses it if I'm not happy
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Only your ears can decide that.
Some claim that tubes sound more analog, but that can be good or bad as to who is listening.
If you have a tube amp or tube pre, a tube DAC might not be needed.
I run mine into a Carver tube pre and it sounds good to me.
At any rate, this is a good DAC. I needed a toslink for my CD player, but unlike some, it can handle most inputs.
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Are you playing any digital files? That is where I really like my dac. I ripped all of my CDs to my Mac and I can play my music to any of the 5 systems in my house, via wireless. That was a huge improvement over my cd player, the old one
If you want to upgrade your cd's and have the option to play sacd or DVD audio get an oppo 981 off agon for $150 bucks. You can also get a grant fidelity dac 09 there for $200 bucks. That would give you two good dacs to sart out with without spending a lot of money. I have a gf dac09 and it's very nice I also have 2 audio note dacs and I have 2 more being built. Are they worth the $1,700 price tag, to me, yes. But if that wasn't in the budget the gf is a great dac to start with. If you decide you like it you'll probably like a benchmark, but you won't have to spend 1,000 bucks finding that out. I would say you could then sell you gf dac but that,ll never happen either
I hate typing on this ipad
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My CD player has a coax digital out, which the Dac-11 can handle. Even if the DAC does not improve over the CD players decoder, it seems like a cheap way to get into digital files, which I am still exploring. If it sounds great, I am done. If not, I'll need to trade up, to maybe the benchmark. Thanks for all of the advice
I hate typing, period. Dyslexic fingers.
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I'm not sure how taboo ancient resurrections are here at VHFP, but....
Anybody else ever check the Grant Fidelity DAC? Looking around now for a good 'entry' DAC.....
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What is your source? If it is a computer, a USB DAC will work fine ans are pretty cheap. Google Audioquest Dragonfly.
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Source would be one of my older CD players. From a couple of articles I've read online, it sounds like a good quality converter might be a good upgrade for overall source quality..... just not sure if that would actually be audible enough to make a difference?
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What is your budget?
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$300 -ish. I was considering a DACmagic, but then also stumbled on the Grant Fidelity model that I then cross-referenced back here.
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This Emotiva XDA-2 is a lot of DAC for the money. Free shipping and generous 30 day return policy.
http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xda2 (http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xda2)
I have the older XDA-1 model and like it.
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The Schiit Bifrost also gets lots of good reviews and is $90 more.
http://schiit.com/products/bifrost (http://schiit.com/products/bifrost)
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My experience with the DACMagic was not great. The Oppo DVD/CD and the Phillips CD-80 sounded better, and, eventually, so did the Focusrite 2i2.
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The big question, in my mind, becomes whether or not an external DAC -especially at this price point- will really make much of a difference? Should I be blowing small piles of cash on these sorts of things, or saving for something amazing down the road? Alas, funds are finite....
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I think there are tons of fun to be had at this price range. Depends on what makes you tick. I enjoy testing/trying equipment out, and so I buy DACs and sell them on if not happy with them or need new functionality. Some old DACs sound pretty good - Rev has a PS Audio DAC from the 90s that sounds scary good. But it handles only basic digital formats.
I think it also depends on where you get your music from. If you are interested in listening to hi-res files from HD Tracks or Acoustic Sounds, an older DAC may not work. Right now I am using the Focusrite 2i2, which only handles up to 96/24 files, so that is what I get from HD Tracks if I buy. With 2i2 I can record vinyl straight to digital at high resolution, something only (or mostly) pro-audio DACs do, but since I like that functionality, that is a great DAC for me.
Note that music is now available in SDS format - the newest highest res format. It requires a new generation of DACs and software to work with them. Read up on that if you are interested in it. I listened to a demo and it came pretty close to making vinyl sound just ok.
The other thing to keep in mind if you listen to music from your computer through a DAC (or plan to): iTunes is not the best player out there (and will not play all formats). I am using Jriver and that made a big difference in the sound. There are threads on that in the archives, feel free to resurrect - I enjoyed re-reading this one.
CTD
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The big question, in my mind, becomes whether or not an external DAC -especially at this price point- will really make much of a difference? Should I be blowing small piles of cash on these sorts of things, or saving for something amazing down the road? Alas, funds are finite....
It depends how good (e.g., revealing) the rest of your system is. It is hard to go wrong with the Emotiva XDA-2.......if you are not happy with it, just send it back.
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...and here again to resurrect! LOL.
So... a number of months ago, I purchased a DacMagic and have used it since streaming from PC > Airport > DAC. At this point, I'm pretty much using this as my only source. Haven't had a deek in years, vinyl is good but incredibly inconvenient, a good proportion of my CDs skip and bump and 2 of my 3 CDPs are out of commision... I rip new music to a hard drive and go from there.
So.... looking to see if anyone found something new or interesting, maybe even older that still sound excellent, etc. I'm leaning towards a PS Audio Nuwave if I buy newer/pricier, but you never know....
In reference to Pepe's comment... I really don't think I -need- a newest generation DAC, I have nothing of sonic quality about standard Apple Lossless rips from CD
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I moved the Focusrite to my office at work yo use as a headphone amp/DAC. Great little DAC. At home I am using the DAC in the Oppo 105, which is supposed to be great, according to reviews (to its credit it handles every format out there, including SDS). Alas, it does not sound that great. My turntable and a good record slaps the Oppo DAC around in resolution, imaging etc. So I will look to get something else at some point, but right now I have a lot of LPs and tapes to listen to. Rev has an Arcam DAC (modified power supply) that seems to approach vinyl magic. Can't remember the model though.
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I moved the Focusrite to my office at work yo use as a headphone amp/DAC. Great little DAC. At home I am using the DAC in the Oppo 105, which is supposed to be great, according to reviews (to its credit it handles every format out there, including SDS). Alas, it does not sound that great. My turntable and a good record slaps the Oppo DAC around in resolution, imaging etc. So I will look to get something else at some point, but right now I have a lot of LPs and tapes to listen to. Rev has an Arcam DAC (modified power supply) that seems to approach vinyl magic. Can't remember the model though.
I'm leaning towards an 'antique' PS Audio Digit Digital Link II, I think that may be the one you referenced Rev as having in the original portion of the thread... I dunno if his was modded or not though. I should have bought it when he had it up for sale.
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It sounded really good to me and he liked it enough to keep for several years, and he is picky for DACs. It may not handle some formats but it does the basic job well.
As mentioned earlier, you can't go wrong with the Emotiva XDAC -they let you try it for 30 days! (return shipping included)
OBG
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Years ago I heard a DAC which I thought was pretty good and it had vacuum tubes in it.
I think it was an Audionote.
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As Pepe noted, I had a PS Audio Superlink but because of it's age, you couldn't run dsd or dsf files thru it. I loved the sound but the limited stream and lack of usb input made me change. I purchased a MacMini to use just for jRiver and needed something newer that could handle hi-res files. I decided to go with an Arcam rDac with a TeraDak power supply after a lot of research. I tried other DAC's that cost 4x as much and I thought the Arcam still sounded better. Used you can usually find one for around $300. There is one on fleabay right now for the same price. If you wanted to go with the upgraded power supply, I think TeraDak sells them for around $100-150.
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I'll have to look into that, considerably cheaper than a lot of what I've been considering.