Vintage HiFi Audio Forum
Audio Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: OldiesButGoodies on November 07, 2013, 11:00:01 PM
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Evaluating a pair of these:
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/485infinity/ (http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/485infinity/)
Cosmetics are great. All drivers good. Any thoughts? Anyone have experience with these? Biamping is required, I know that. Below are shots of the actual speakers drivers, etc. Looking to spend $3000 tops.
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Show off. But seriously, I want to hear those things, you bastard.
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I bet they sound like non-heterosexual western men who eat dairy products.
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I bet they sound like non-heterosexual western men who eat dairy products.
Two gays eating cheese, Pepe. Why Rev drags it out, I don't know.
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I'd drive to McMurray to hear these.
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So no input on sound?
Trying to scan the web for takes on them while working out possible transportation scenarios with the seller. No final decision to buy yet, but getting a pair of these is in my bucket list.
This is some of what I have read on the net:
If you have enough power to really make them work, they are absolutely awe inspiring. I drove half way cross the country to get them as they are difficult to ship. I would do it again. The lows are as low as you can hear and the highs are pure crystal clear. Remember, these are "old" technology. I would stand them against anything near their price range. There's a real 3d soundstage here. Until you get them in your listening room, you cannot appreciate their size. In our living room they how shall I say it? They stand out. Be sure your significant other can tolerate big looking, but absolutely stunning sounding speakers. They are still out there, but they are getting harder to find. Buy them...
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I had purchased these speakers used in the late 80's.A friend of mine had a pair of RS1A's and I loved the way they sounded,and started the search.Nothing can explain how these speakers sound.They are FANTASTIC,and I will never part with them.All-though I almost did when Infinity came out with the BETA'S ,BUT listing over 10,000.00 and selling new for 8500.00 I couldn't justify trading my RS1B's and comming up with the extra cash for them.Mine are Medium Oak and I use Denon POA6600 mono blocks for the Bass columns.On the top end I run a Conrad-Johnson MV45 tube amp and let me tell you it is sweet.I do not crank the audio so there is no clipping in my system.My pre-amp is a Bryston .5b no phono section.I always wanted to put Class A mono amps on the Mid/Twt columns and since I am addicted to WWW.AUDIOGON.COM (http://WWW.AUDIOGON.COM) used mono amps are in my price range.I also have to give credit to my wife who polishes them every month.They look brand new.I suggest anyone that has a chance to buy a pair DON'T HESITATE.You would have to pay at least 30,000.00 for todays speakers to duplicate the sound.
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I love my Rs1b's. I bought mine from a 2nd. owner and I had them shipped from Mass. to Florida. I hired Craters and Freighters to pack them, and they did a wonderful job. When I moved from Florida to Seattle and packed everything in a Penske truck I again used Freighters and Craters, and they did a great job. They build the boxes right around the speakers. Expensive though.
You are fortunate to have the crossovers modded. The original active crossover was a disaster to use. I would be interested in finding out exactly how the passive crossover was modded. I had the the passive crossovers on my pair upgraded with new caps, etc. but not modified. I also had all the original Emims replaced with Apogee Emims made by Graz, and they are a huge, huge, huge improvement over the originals. I saved all the original Emims of course, thinking that if an Emim died I would be able to pop an old one back in until I got a replacement, but I have found that they are not as prone to failure as the original ribbons, and I have not yet had to replace one. Enjoy your new speakers. You will love them.
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If I buy them I would power the mids/tweets with the Carver monoblocks and the bass with the PS Audio Delta 100.
Thoughts, advice welcome.
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If you get them, I'm sure that would be the last change of speakers in your basement. I've never heard them personally. I think Frankie has a pair.
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They need a big space to sound their best. These are overkill for most rooms. If size matters, then knock yourself out.
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(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/1105131543_01_zps4bd3f79f.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/1105131543_01_zps4bd3f79f.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/1105131541_zps3aadd529.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/1105131541_zps3aadd529.jpg.html)
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My parents living room is 45 x 35 x 18. I think we should set them up there. :) :)
How do they sound, Pepe? How long is your audition? I really wouldn't mind hearing these things.
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Please note I do not have possession of these yet, and may not ever. The pictures are from the seller in New York. I am interested in them, but trying to understand their condition via pictures and conversation with seller. These RS1bs came with a passive crossover box that the seller does not have, so I may back off getting them (the alternative is to get an active cross over from a third party etc.). Anyway - will keep you posted if it goes any farther. They sure look tempting to me.
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Don't buy a Ferrari with Lotus suspension. >:D
Can you make the Infinity x-over?
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May be worth contacting this guy... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Infinity-RS-1-Passive-Crossover-Original-For-Replacement-or-Parts-Good-/281011720072?pt=US_Speaker_Parts_Components&hash=item416d9a8f88 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Infinity-RS-1-Passive-Crossover-Original-For-Replacement-or-Parts-Good-/281011720072?pt=US_Speaker_Parts_Components&hash=item416d9a8f88)
He seems to have a lot of Infinity crossovers for sale.
Price is outrageous for the one you need... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Infinity-RS-Active-Electronic-Crossover-Equalizer-in-Excellent-Condition-/331057095368?pt=US_Speaker_Parts_Components&hash=item4d148a62c8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Infinity-RS-Active-Electronic-Crossover-Equalizer-in-Excellent-Condition-/331057095368?pt=US_Speaker_Parts_Components&hash=item4d148a62c8)
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Beyond outrageous. I can't see why any Rane xover wouldn't work just fine. That said, I would be wary of buying any speakers that may have been driven without the xover. I would hate for you to buy a tower full of magic smoke.
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Never owned anything like these, but have had a few pairs of Infinities in the house over the years. You cannot have too much amplifier power.
As an aside, if you are considering dropping $3k on speakers, you owe it to yourself to find a way to listen to a pair of MAC XRT 22s. It's a two cabinet system with a line source array for the upper mids and highs and lower frequency cabinet, containing 2 12" woofers and an 8" upper bass driver, for the rest. No speaker I have ever heard can match the low frequency performance at twice the money and the sound stage is spooky solid. Argueably Roger Russells best speaker design. They will easily handle 1000+ watts/channel. If I had room, the 22s would be in my house.
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@Mark - that is my concern - if he tested them, and he said he did, what x-over was protecting those tweeters? None. So unless he was really gentle it could be a headache of a purchase. But yes one could go active and forget the x-over.
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Turns out they do have a passive x-over in the back after all. Will understand better tomorrow when they are delivered. Will keep you all posted on the sound.
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(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3453_zps3267f9ee.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3453_zps3267f9ee.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3454_zps60f4dd9f.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3454_zps60f4dd9f.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3455_zpsb5dd48ae.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3455_zpsb5dd48ae.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3456_zpsacb7c81d.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3456_zpsacb7c81d.jpg.html)
Driving the ribbon stack with the Bob's and the woofer stack w the PS Audio Delta 100:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3462_zps121c4b89.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3462_zps121c4b89.jpg.html)
Splitting the signal fed to the Bob's to feed the Delta - not ideal but works - need to find out what the ribbon impedance is - using the 4 ohm tap now:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3463_zpsed427b0c.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3463_zpsed427b0c.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3457_zps7316a7c4.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3457_zps7316a7c4.jpg.html)
The passive crossovers in the ribbon towers prob need recapped - the whole setup also would probably benefit from an active x-over:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3464_zps0a3ece2b.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3464_zps0a3ece2b.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3461_zps618903f2.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3461_zps618903f2.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3460_zpsf008624a.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3460_zpsf008624a.jpg.html)
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I've got to come hear those.
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Definitely need to add an active x-over to emulate what the original did (it was not included in the purchase, someone is asking $1645 for it on ebay - don't think so!).
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A crossover for the 4.5s recently sold on epay for around $500. I really want to hear those things!
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Awesome score!!!! I have heard these with Krell mono blocks, excellent system..
You need to call Nick and get his Melos 402 mono blocks. 400 watts each of tube power, and run them on the low end!! With your carvers on top!!
Congrats on the great score!!
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Thanks all..
I will test a DBX223 crossover on them by mid-week. I need more power for the bottom end, but first I will insert an active crossover to help control the balance between the bass towers and the ribbons. Without the cross over the bass tower is also singing freqs it was not meant to so it sounds weird.
The needles on the Carvers do not move nearly as much driving these ribbons (I was concerned I would have to replace the meters in a few years at the place they were flicking, seriously).
Pepe
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Very nice! You have the room to set them up and that certainly helps.
An active crossover is a must. The one on eBay is way overpriced. Is someone else making these?
Regards,
Carl
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So the tale of the $$ so far:
I have one bad EMIM mid driver (and it has to the one right in the middle - my near term fix may be to swap for a less critical one). They sell for $329 on fleabay, or a seller will repair for $183. Mine, I believe, has a bad diaphragm, so will explore sourcing that . All the fuses (4 per speaker need replacing and the fuse cases cleaning. The rheostat are dirty as heck, but don't want to touch them too much unless hurting sound. The wiring inside the passive x-overs and throughout the speaker is Monster Cable from 1985, and is thick and stiff like 12 gauge electrical solid core (but is not really solid, a very tight braid). Very hard to solder without a Lincoln Electric arc welder. ^-^.
The bass towers are laughably out of their element playing full range(they could make do as "full range" speakers for someone sufficiently deaf. So not doing anything else with them until the x-over arrives Wednesday or tomorrow.
The caps in the passives mostly look good except a couple of electrolytics - that may be sweating a little. Will post pictures of all that shortly.
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Pictures to supplement the previous post:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3471_zpsa2ced02c.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3471_zpsa2ced02c.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3473_zpsfc92baae.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3473_zpsfc92baae.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3477_zpse690a78a.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3477_zpse690a78a.jpg.html)
In this one you see one of the cables that came off when I took the cover off. I had to resolder it - it was a pain. Seems like the speaker wiring is designed for high power - good place to try your TFM-75:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3479_zps200b2283.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3479_zps200b2283.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3474_zps0142e2ba.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3474_zps0142e2ba.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_3472_zps02d58e25.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_3472_zps02d58e25.jpg.html)
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Hi,
I recently bought a set of RS1b's to rob parts for my IRS Beta's. After getting them home and hooking them up, I couldn't go through with the cannibalization, they just sound too good, it seemed to be a sin. So they are relegated to the man cave. They do need a big room. The original infinity active crossover hummed so I replaced it with an Ashly XR 1001 which works great, you just loose the pseudo servo functionality of the original.
If you haven't replaced the EMIM yet, you can usually find them on the auction sites, just be patient for the right price. Mine had bad EMIT's on the rear of both, so I acquired some for around $50. The third EMIM down on each tower does most of the work so if that is the bad one, a replacement will make a huge difference. 1, 2, and 4 and 5, 6, and 7 are wired in series so if one goes (open) you will actually loose three.
If you take the time to position them correctly, and get all the drivers working, I am sure you will love them.
Mike
IRS Beta
RS1b
ESS AMT 3
Pioneer HPM 100
Klipsch KG4
Yeah I'm a collector........
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Hi...
Thanks for posting this. I do not meet many RS-1 owners in these parts. I use a Peavey 23XO but may give the Ashly a try if I find one for a good price - their claim is that the xover maintains phase, which is a must for these speakers.
I still have the original xover in good form and have spent some time troubleshooting. If yours has a hum I recommend you look at the 100 ohm resistors that separates the oc board ground from chassis ground. If goes into the screw holding the transformer chassis to case ground. It snaps easily after these many years. A $2 Radio Schack fix.
I never did find the "servo" a big selling point - Peavey sounds better to me. Will look for an Ashly to try on Ebay. If you are local we should coordinate to have you drop by and help me with speaker positioning. ;D. What amps are you driving yours with?
Thanks,
Pepe
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Pepe,
Will need to do the EQ over if you move the speakers. Let me know
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thanks for the listen Friday... awesome clarity and incredible sound stage. I had not ever heard those before and was definitely worth the long drive to do so lol! I did think the sound was more "integrated", if that's the right word, with the units a little closer to being in the same plane.... Nice to see you using the Pro-Control Four... and the tuner.... always cool when "stuff" goes to a good home!
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@Jim - come on, that was not a long trip!
The Soundcraftsmen is off-duty now with Carver C-19 back in service. It is on the bench as I am planning to recap it, ordering parts soon. Here's a look at the interior:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_7294_zpsa0713426.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_7294_zpsa0713426.jpg.html)
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l538/namikis/IMG_7293_zpsf1f8289d.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/namikis/media/IMG_7293_zpsf1f8289d.jpg.html)
@Macgeek
I am waiting for the Tom to finish recapping the Sunfire 400x5 amp so I can redo the room with the more permanent setup. I did realign the speakers more closely with the position suggested by the manual (influenced by Jim), which I had tried before. This time I measured a bit more carefully. It sounds good and may allow me to have the speakers behind the theater screen (the 35" mark).
@Nick:
Heard you on the crossover. I know there are high end crossovers I should be trying. As soon as I find one for sale at a decent price I may acquire one.
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Hi...
Thanks for posting this. I do not meet many RS-1 owners in these parts. I use a Peavey 23XO but may give the Ashly a try if I find one for a good price - their claim is that the xover maintains phase, which is a must for these speakers.
I still have the original xover in good form and have spent some time troubleshooting. If yours has a hum I recommend you look at the 100 ohm resistors that separates the oc board ground from chassis ground. If goes into the screw holding the transformer chassis to case ground. It snaps easily after these many years. A $2 Radio Schack fix.
I never did find the "servo" a big selling point - Peavey sounds better to me. Will look for an Ashly to try on Ebay. If you are local we should coordinate to have you drop by and help me with speaker positioning. ;D. What amps are you driving yours with?
Thanks,
Pepe
I was never planning on actually using these, but I found a pair of Yamaha MX 630 amps dirt cheap, $230 for the pair. One didn't work but it was just bad solder joints on the main caps. The 630's have enough power and sound respectable for man cave system. I have never had the money to try some amps on either the Beta's or the RS1b's, but I am still looking. You need to be sure to use amps with enough power, from what I understand the biggest reason for driver failure is distortion from under powered amps. I bought both the Beta's and RS1b's used, and both had blown EMIT's. I have had the Beta's for 25 years with no issues of my own until the magnets on the EMIM's de-laminated, which is why I bought the RS1b's. Having a backup source for the EMIM's I decided to repair the EMIM's using magnet kits from the auction sites, which are fantastic.
There are easily $2600 worth of EMIM's alone on the RS1b's so I can never loose money even considering the Ashly and the amps, if I ever need to sell them or part them out.
I like the sound using the Ashly, so I will probably never go back to the Infinity crossover, it would be different if it was an active servo like the Beta's.
Mike
IRS Beta
RS1b
ESS AMT 3
Pioneer HPM 100
Klipsch KG4
Yeah I'm a collector........
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P.S. I am just outside of Denver so a drop by probably won't work.
Mike
IRS Beta
RS1b
ESS AMT 3
Pioneer HPM 100
Klipsch KG4
Yeah I'm a collector........
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I bet the betas sound great after a toke of those special Colorado cigars...
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The Beta's do sound great, no wacky tobaccy required. They need a big room like the RS1b's, but I have that.
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These have been in pretty much the same place for over 20 years now. Once you find the sweet spot for yours, you probably won't find a need to fiddle with them much
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Great pic Mike
Do the woofer towers sound better elevated like that?
Pepe
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Great pic Mike
Do the woofer towers sound better elevated like that?
Pepe
It doesn't make much difference in sound, maybe a slight decrease in loss to the carpeting, but not much and with 4 12" drivers in each tower, there is plenty to spare. I had my ESS AMT 3's on the stands, which did sound better on them. I needed the storage space that they provided so I kept them when I got the Beta's. I kind of like the looks though. I did try the treble towers on them but that was NOT good, so I settled on the configuration shown.
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I admire your respect for symmetry, Mike.
This setup receives 100% approval from the OCD mathematician camp.
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Jim Smith (of "Better Sound" book fame) makes a big deal of keeping the space between the speakers empty. Looks like you and I break that rule. I have tried it both ways and I prefer the short speaker cable runs to the empty space. O0
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Add me to the list of violators. My "space" has a rack of gear in it, with the speakers pulled a bit forward.
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Jim Smith (of "Better Sound" book fame) makes a big deal of keeping the space between the speakers empty. Looks like you and I break that rule. I have tried it both ways and I prefer the short speaker cable runs to the empty space. O0
From what I have found the overall size of the space and the distance from the back wall makes the most difference. The rear facing EMIT sits quite high which I am sure plays into the equation. I am pretty much stuck with needing to fill the space with the components you see
This room has 20' ceilings on that wall tapering to 10' opposite. Imaging is what I like best about these speakers, and I think that the imaging in their current configuration is excellent.
I have tried the RS1b's with empty space except for amps on the floor but never the Beta's. I currently have the components on a low table in the void and I could not discern a difference with my old ears.
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Mike - dibs on your betas when you get tired of them. Special trip to Denver to get em. >:D
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I will keep that in mind, but the phrase Cold Dead Hands come to mind. I wanted them since the first time I heard them new but I could never afford them. It was a decade before I found these used, and I will do almost anything to keep them running, even cannibalization of the RS1b's if it comes to that. I think that I would have to spend 30 ~ 40 k to find anything better today. Right now they are perfect with the new magnet assemblies on the EMIMs and new foam on the Watkins.