Vintage HiFi Audio Forum
Audio Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: RnR on November 25, 2013, 02:42:51 PM
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Hello,
I am interested in a pair of speakers on CL and was wondering if I could get some feedback... Anyone have any experience with Klipsch Forte II's that could give me their opinion on their sound characteristics?? Here are some pics also if that that helps with feedback
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The 3-way Klipsch sound is hard to describe. Mind you I've never owned Fortes, but, I do own Choruses. Choruses are the same configuration except they use a 15" woofer.
They're very detailed, dynamic, and dare I say, bright. They're enjoyable at low volumes unlike many speakers that I've experimented with. They reveal subtleties that otherwise remain buried below the surface provided that your source(s) are up to the task. They aren't accurate, they're not a "monitor", some people detest the Klipsch sound. Personally, if I could sum them up in a word, it'd be fun. They are a fun sounding speaker. They're very hard to walk away from if their character is indeed one that suits your listening taste.
It may be worth pointing out that the Forte II uses a Tactrix midrange horn as opposed to an exponential midrange horn as is used by the Forte I. Generally speaking, the Tactrix horn produces somewhat of a smoother presentation and a bit less "twang" or "honk" than an exponential horn. If you like that gritty sharpness in your music, you may want to opt for an older set that use exponential horns. For example, the opening guitar rift in War Pigs on my exponential horns is just mind blowing. When I run the same song through Tactrix horns on my KG's, it sounds a bit more tame and less raw. Just some food for thought.
Either way, if you can get these for a reasonable price, you most likely won't be disappointed.
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The best way I can describe the Klipsch sound is to say they are the least veiled speakers I have ever heard (I spent a lot of time with LaScalas, I've never heard a Forte). The LaScalas are the only speakers I have heard (okay, Ron's Harbeths not withstanding) that are as clear and revealing as my Grado headphones.
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Revealing is a great way to characterize any Klipsch 3-way speaker.
The La Scala also uses an exponential horn as opposed to the Tactrix horn on the Forte II. The highs and mids on the La Scala sound practically identical to those of the Forte I. The Forte II will have slightly more refined midrange signature due to the variation in horn design.
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Also, RnR, what will you be amplifying these with should they become yours?
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a carver m-500t, dont have a preamp yet.
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---yes i also read that about the II's having a more tamed mid horn compared to other a lot of older klipsch. God I hate saying klipsch, strange name! Anyway... What is a passive radiator like, im confused? Does it produce sound or does it just allow the cab to have flexible tuning depending on volume or what?
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A passive radiator (pr) "acts" like a port... It tunes the bass driver to allow "deeper" bass than without a pr
g
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http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_2/cmilleressayporting.html (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_2/cmilleressayporting.html)
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An enclosure that utilizes a passive radiator is functionally equivalent to a ported design of the same volume. The same frequency response can be achieved using one design or the other.
One disadvantage to the Klipsch passive radiator design is the fact that they typically require more floor space than their front ported Klipsch cousins. The PR cabinets require a decent amount of spacing between the rear of the cabinet and the wall where as front ported cabinets are a bit more flexible in this aspect.
You may wish to read a little on Thiele / Small parameters. Most Klipsch Heritage speakers use a low frequency driver with a relatively large Xmax (maximum excursion) coupled with a box volume that tends to be on the small side of ideal given the woofer used. In addition, the cabinets are tuned to produce a hump in SPL output that is slightly above the free air resonance of the woofer.
Typically when a woofer attempts to produce a frequency that is below the tuning frequency of a given ported or passive radiator loaded cabinet, linear excursion increases uncontrollably and damage can occur to the voice coil. Klipsch purposely avoided this issue by tuning the box "higher" than the resonance of their woofers, meanwhile, they utilize a woofer that can handle significant linear excursion.
A similar design was employed in the legendary JBL 4311 monitor. The result is an increased midbass output between 60 and 45 Hz with a roll off below the 45 Hz peak.
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Ok, so I went to demo them and really enjoyed their sound. I got them for $385.00. The cabs are black and in perfect shape, grills perfect, sound to be fully functioning internally. Anyway, there is a hole in the one passive radiator the size of a dime. Not really sure how well I did. What do you think? I think average... Anyway can you guys give me some direction on the PR. Should I try to repair it? If so, how do I go about it? Should I replace it with new PR? Any advice on how much I paid/PR repair/general comments on spekaers would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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How about posting a picture of the hole in the PR?
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$385 ain't bad assuming that the PR can be repaired for next to nothing.
If you decide a repair is not feasible, the part number on the passive radiator in the Forte II is KD-15-K. They can usually be had on ePay for under 100 dollars.
As bmwr said, a picture or two of the hole would be very helpful. Also be careful when removing the PR from the cabinet. You may be best off laying the cabinet face down with the grills on and removing the PR with the rear facing upward.
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Dime size? I have a blown 15" that we can cut a patch from. We'll blend the edges from the front, then glue it from the back with Aileens and black tissue paper. From three feet nobody will be able to see it and it will have zero effect on the sound. I'm happy to help you.
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Give it a shot before you spend +$100 on a new PR. If you think the repair sucks, you can still buy a new one after.
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Hey guys,
I put a deposit down on them and am going to pick them up tonight (12/10) -- Hope they fit in my civic. I dont have a digital camera or smart phone (old school!) but I will get my friend to snap one after I pick them up tonight and put it up. I will probably need help/instruction on how to fix the tear, i think I have a good idea.. But I also was wondering if you thought they would possibly need new caps? Made in 1990, havnt been used since probably 2000. Also any advice on room placement would be great. Some people say close to walls/corner, others say 2 feet out? Any ideas?
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They could need new caps. Some folks will say it's an absolute. Other folks will tell you to let your ears be the judge. I didn't recap my Choruses (1989, I believe) because they sound stellar as they are.
PW Klipsch recommended placing his loudspeakers in adjacent corners and angling them toward the center of the room at 45 degrees. The aim of this arrangement is to provide the maximum stereo sound field throughout the room in addition to utilizing the room itself to reinforce low frequency output.
I personally prefer them set up in an equilateral triangle and angled in slightly toward the listening position about 18 inches out from the rear wall. Although horns have solid off-axis response, they are still highly directional. Your personal taste and room geometry / acoustics will dictate position following trial and error.
And best of luck cramming them into a Civic. You may want to make two trips. One for each speaker. Or you may want to remove the PR's before you haul them so you can position them with peace of mind.
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Guys I had been asking about how to repair my torn PR on the Forte's and I have FINALLY "borrowed" a camera from my work and gotten some pics. Whats the consensus??
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Just a little wood glue applied with a small paint brush. Try not to get any on the "accordion" portion of the surround.
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Wood glue might be a little too stiff. I've used Elmer's mixed with a little water with great results.
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Oh yeah, that's very minor. When you said "a hole", I pictured missing paper. If you brush the glue carefully on the inside of the seam, that can be nearly invisibly repaired. No need for a patch or tissue paper. Definitely wont affect function. No way I would buy a new PR for that issue.
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I still prefer Aileens Craft Glue for this type of repair.
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Ok so just take the screws out of the front of the PR and drop it down out of the cabinet. Im assuming the wires are long enough to allow it to come out a little bit. Then brush some kind of glue on the inside of the speaker cone, and not the speaker's suspension coil. Thats it? Once its dry and everything can I push them to their full potential without worry?
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Ok so just take the screws out of the front of the PR and drop it down out of the cabinet. Im assuming the wires are long enough to allow it to come out a little bit.
Boy, are you going to be in for a surprise.
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what do u mean? No play in the wire to pull it out?
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Because it's passive, there are no wires attached to it.
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oh ya wtf am i saying
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wow -- embarrassing -- is there any adhesive or anything like a gasket that could tear easily? Any trick I need to know before I attempt it?
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It should pop out pretty easily. You might have to pry a little bit, just be careful and take your time.
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Ok cool im excited to do this. Not that this is ridiculously involved, but I never really had a knack at working on stuff so its a good opportunity for me to get better. For instance I blew the speaker in a guitar amplifier I had and had to take it to a repair shop to get replaced. I feel like I should be starting to be able to do this kind of stuff on my own. Ill let u know how it turns out.
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Thank you Schwarcz for the Cardas speaker setup reference link which I noted and downloaded.
Happy Christmas all!