Vintage HiFi Audio Forum

Audio Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 09, 2015, 06:27:20 PM

Title: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 09, 2015, 06:27:20 PM
As much as I appreciate scorpio's handy work in building his own, I'm not that skilled nor do I have a lot of space in my home to keep such dedicated machines.   This one looks absolutely perfect to me, and I can keep it under my rack and just pull it out when I need it.   Thoughts?

http://www.squeakycleanvinyl.com/mk-ii-rcm.html (http://www.squeakycleanvinyl.com/mk-ii-rcm.html)
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Jim Pittsburgh on August 09, 2015, 09:38:40 PM
need to do a little research and study, but it looks great.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Resident on August 10, 2015, 12:06:27 AM
I agree pretty good deal there.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: scorpio333 on August 10, 2015, 12:34:21 AM
Had I seen that before I built my first one, I would of bought one of these without a doubt. Any reviews out there on them?

My first unit works, but the wand was always an issue and ultimately drove me to build my second. $100 is just beyond spin clean price and likely worth every penny. Saves time from scrounging parts and then the trial and error of getting those parts to work in good harmony. I enjoy that kind of thing, but can easily see where others would want nothing to do with it.

Now I'm hoping someone does an ultrasonic at reasonable cost like that.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 10, 2015, 07:20:02 AM
Only review I've read is one user at AK who likes it.   That's how I found out about it.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: scorpio333 on August 12, 2015, 01:12:20 PM
Gave the link to a friend of mine. He doesn't have a big collection but grabs some here n there at garage sales and thrifts. He's considering ordering one. If he does, I'll check it out and post thoughts. Believe he was quoted $125 shipped.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 12, 2015, 02:13:59 PM
Yeah, it's from Canada so it fluctuates with the exchange rate.   He also sells on ePay, so that may be most practical for US buyers.   I just flipped a few records and will likely use the proceeds to get one this weekend.   He does custom colors, so I am going to order Black and Gold.   I'll bring it to the next get together.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 13, 2015, 10:48:36 AM
I just purchased on eBay.   With the current exchange rate it was $126.31 shipped.   This is long overdue.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Resident on August 13, 2015, 03:06:20 PM
Well you are go8by to have to give us an in depth review.  Hope it works well.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: OldiesButGoodies on August 13, 2015, 10:43:11 PM
same here, interested to know how much more effective that the spin clean this option is...
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Jim Pittsburgh on August 14, 2015, 08:24:48 AM
very interested myself... even if the table is less than perfect, if the fittings, tubes and arm are good, it would be a great buy to turn into a great DIY project.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 14, 2015, 04:29:08 PM
Today I got an email confirming shipment and since I ordered a custom color, he was kind enough to send along a snapshot as well...

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/markshan/RCM_zpsoiv0zlsr.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/markshan/media/RCM_zpsoiv0zlsr.jpg.html)
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Resident on August 14, 2015, 07:13:18 PM
That's pretty nice looking.  Seems he is decent to work with as well.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Kingman on August 14, 2015, 07:20:26 PM
Looks good...await your review!  ;)
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 14, 2015, 09:43:32 PM
Seems he is decent to work with as well.

Great communicator and gave me positive eBay feedback as soon as I paid.   Nothing but praise so far (but of course I don't have the product yet).
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: scorpio333 on August 15, 2015, 12:34:50 AM
Good everything is smooth so far. What kind of vac do you plan to use? Does it come with a brush pad? I used a paint pad and they work ok. I recently ordered a Mobile Fidelity record brush and like it. I still use the paint pad to remove dust before applyng fluid.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 15, 2015, 09:58:47 AM
Here is my small shop-vac of choice...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stinger-2-gal-Wet-Dry-Vacuum-WD2020/205404631 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stinger-2-gal-Wet-Dry-Vacuum-WD2020/205404631)

As for brushes, just regular old nylon bristle paint brushes.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Resident on August 15, 2015, 12:12:07 PM
That will more the do the trick and even if suction is a bit high, there is that relief valve at the top to take care of that.

I think that was a great idea.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 15, 2015, 01:22:02 PM
Yeah, it seems to be a very well thought out design.   Waiting a week to try it will be a killer.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Resident on August 16, 2015, 02:57:21 PM
I know that I had made mine, it is just a simple wand that attaches to the vacuum hose.  It does work well as long as I dont get to close to the lp.

Then it sucks it right up.  This would at least for me as well be a much better item to use and the price point is arguably the best if it works as stated.  Ill be waiting patiently as well for your review.

:)
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: EmperorNorton on August 18, 2015, 09:05:16 AM
Here is my small shop-vac of choice...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stinger-2-gal-Wet-Dry-Vacuum-WD2020/205404631 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stinger-2-gal-Wet-Dry-Vacuum-WD2020/205404631)

As for brushes, just regular old nylon bristle paint brushes.

That's a great idea.  I think I bought that exact model to take excess water off the winter pool cover.  I seldom use it and now I can try something new....
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 21, 2015, 11:39:23 PM
It came today.   Looks good.   I'll give usage impressions tomorrow.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Resident on August 23, 2015, 10:34:35 AM
Not a bad turn a round time from up North there.  Definitely waiting on impressions.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 23, 2015, 02:40:11 PM
Will write more and have photos later, but so far I am VERY impressed.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 23, 2015, 09:33:29 PM
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/markshan/GEDC1686_zpsddp4vbxm.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/markshan/media/GEDC1686_zpsddp4vbxm.jpg.html)

So I have much to report about this RCM.   First, I should tell you that I experienced a bit of frustration when it initially arrived (this delayed my review).   Things can (and do) go wrong when you buy a product, from eBay or elsewhere.   Having something go wrong is not a reflection of a seller, how the incident is dealt with is.   So here goes part one of the story.

I anxiously set up my new machine and got out a record to clean.   When I turned on the vacuum, I observed that it wasn't really drying the record the way I anticipated.   I was having to towel dry the records afterward and this wasn't what I was expecting.   This was on Saturday afternoon.   So I sent Nick (the seller and designer) a message on eBay's board expecting to hear something maybe on Monday.   I don't think it was ten minutes before he got back to me with several suggestions.   None of those helped, so I started checking the thing out piece by piece.   What I found was that the end of the wand (the part that contacts the record) had a piece of plastic blocking what seemed to be a hole for the air to flow to that part.   The wand wasn't vacuuming the record at all, it was just pushing the fluid around.   I snapped a picture and sent it to Nick and he confirmed my speculation.   He was apologetic almost to a fault and did everything he could do to take care of me.   He said a replacement part would be shipped immediately and he gave me a financial consideration for my inconvenience.   He also offered a full refund in case I was put off, but that certainly wasn't an option I felt need to exercise.   What he didn't know is that as he was typing all of that, I was working from his confirmation and got into the barrel with an Exacto knife.   Though it took more than a little effort, the plastic was thin enough that I was able to remove it through use of the knife, a screwdriver to pry and needle nosed pliers to remove the offending material.   So I contacted him back to let him know I had remedied the situation.   Instead of saying "oh, good, now I don't need to send a replacement" as many sellers would, he wrote back suggesting that since the first one was now functional, that I might want my replacement in a different color to easily differentiate.   Nick is an awesome seller!

BTW, I had planned to get a $15 shop vac from Home Depot, but they were out of stock.   I found that Walmart sells the pictured Stanley for $20.   I usually don't shop the evil empire, but it was in stock, smaller, and a good color match (a closer match than the flash on my camera makes it look).   Well worth the extra $5 to me.

Now to the review.   I had previously been hand washing my records in the kitchen sink with a label protector, Sporacidin mold cleaner, a paint brush and tap water.   I had also tried a friend's Spin Clean, but was convinced I was getting far better results with the sink.   These are my frames of reference for using this product.   

There are pros and cons for this machine vs hand washing.   The first big pro is time.   I can clean at least five records with the machine in the time it takes to do one by hand.   The first big con is the noise.   I can't clean records with this machine after the kids have gone to bed.   Then there is the issue of fluid.   I used a LOT of cleaner and water with hand washing.   On the machine, if you let the fluid pool on the record (as was my practice) the edges of the labels soak through.   So really crusty finds may still get a hand wash first.   To help offset this, I went from a wash/rinse regimen to a three step process.     I am first cleaning with less of the mold cleaner, with less dwell time due to the lowered amount of fluid but more brushing because it is so much easier with the record being on the platter (and it keeps the record from drying with soap on it).   Then after vacuuming the soap away, I am using a 50/50 iso/distilled mix, brushing it then vacuuming.   Lastly a rinse with pure distilled water and a third vacuum.

This method is giving me results as good or perhaps even better than the hand washing.   It is so much quicker and easier that it is clearly preferable in my mind.   As I alluded to earlier, I believe that this RCM is far superior to the popular budget option, the Spin Clean.   It isn't even close IMHO.

To give people a pragmatic idea of what to expect with the machine, I make a test subject of a Brian Eno album that came from the thrift the day before.   I recorded a 30 second clip before cleaning and after.   Links to those files are attached.   I then took those files and ran them both through ClickRepair at default settings.   In the left channel, the before file had 37760 repaired samples as opposed to 24416 for the after file.   This represents a 35% improvement in clicks on the record for the moment it took me to clean it.   Probably more than 35% when you consider than some clicks are scratches which can't be cleaned out.   The right channel started with 32288 samples before and 25852 after, representing a 20% improvement.

Anyone who knows me knows that I am really cheap and don't drop a buck and a half lightly.   I am VERY happy with this purchase.

Wav files...

https://mega.nz/#!tplQkJ5Z!yZJLTCcKZ55yALxUIg49aeWGCpwI7QXFoVV6gy0Ix7o (https://mega.nz/#!tplQkJ5Z!yZJLTCcKZ55yALxUIg49aeWGCpwI7QXFoVV6gy0Ix7o)

https://mega.nz/#!xgEDkZbL!GiE2Lx5aAcV5xgHpAbILOUA8C_Kolm5TOzOZoN46xs8 (https://mega.nz/#!xgEDkZbL!GiE2Lx5aAcV5xgHpAbILOUA8C_Kolm5TOzOZoN46xs8)
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: MacGeek on August 24, 2015, 06:32:28 AM
Thanks, for the review, Mark.  I like the matching shop vac.

Do you have a Spin Clean?  If so, can it be used in conjunction with the new unit (wash on one, dry on the other)?
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 24, 2015, 07:22:47 AM
I don't have a Spin Clean, but Jim was kind enough to let me use his at one of the meetings.   You could wash in the Spin Clean then dry on the vac, but I don't think it would be of benefit.   One of the things I don't like about the Spin Clean is that you are using the same fluid for many dirty records.   I prefer spraying clean fluid on each one.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: scorpio333 on August 24, 2015, 09:16:02 AM
Nice write up. A friend of mine is considering one and I'll pass your review along. More sellers should take note, when you take care of customers they tell others which in turn is free advertising.

Seems to be a no brainer over a Spin Clean. No offense to anyone who has one, but STaL hit the nail on the head, Spin Clean uses the same water over and over. Big no no for cleaning. I use to do plenty of car detailing for friends/family and the first step is washing with two buckets. One with soap, one with water. Dump the sponge in the water to clean it before getting more soap. Do it once and you'll see how dirty that water is at the end. That practice should be used for any type of cleaning, otherwise you're just moving dirt around and not removing it.

As for vac'ing a record out of a spin clean, I would think a Nitty Gritty type setup would be better for that. Nitty Gritty's vac the bottom side of a record, the record pretty much sits on a hockey puck size platter. Placing a wet record on platter will get the top side dry, but when you flip it over the dry side ends up on the wet platter. A custom made shopvac nozzle could be made to vac both sides. I've seen pics of these, but it's a pain to get the cuts exact.

Do you see any way to add a motor to the platter? That's the next level! Once you have a platter that spins all by itself you'll never go back!


Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Jim Pittsburgh on August 24, 2015, 09:22:52 AM
good review Mark... thanks for the info. Looks to be a very good alternative to the much more expensive models. I hope Santa brings me one lol

FYI  Since your use of my Spin Clean, I've refined my own Spin Clean process... For really dirty albums; pre-clean using a paint pad and a very diluted mix of Dawn and a few drops of a enzymatic cleaner, tap water rinse very  thoroughly, spin clean 3-4 rotations right, left and right again...and then a spray rinse with distilled water and then another round through the Spin Clean.... I change the Spin Clean water about every 6-10 albums depending how cloudy / dirty it is. I then give every cleaned album a very thorough roll with an "In the Groove" roller cleaner before initial play.... seems to work better than any other process I've tried.

For normal "new to me" albums...  it's the same double Spin Clean process rinsing with a distilled water spray after each and roll with the ITG ...

It's the PITA wiping/ drying process that I hate and I think that this machine will save me that time and possible contamination from the rags etc. 
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 24, 2015, 10:37:08 AM
Nice write up. A friend of mine is considering one and I'll pass your review along. More sellers should take note, when you take care of customers they tell others which in turn is free advertising.

Seems to be a no brainer over a Spin Clean. No offense to anyone who has one, but STaL hit the nail on the head, Spin Clean uses the same water over and over. Big no no for cleaning. I use to do plenty of car detailing for friends/family and the first step is washing with two buckets. One with soap, one with water. Dump the sponge in the water to clean it before getting more soap. Do it once and you'll see how dirty that water is at the end. That practice should be used for any type of cleaning, otherwise you're just moving dirt around and not removing it.

As for vac'ing a record out of a spin clean, I would think a Nitty Gritty type setup would be better for that. Nitty Gritty's vac the bottom side of a record, the record pretty much sits on a hockey puck size platter. Placing a wet record on platter will get the top side dry, but when you flip it over the dry side ends up on the wet platter. A custom made shopvac nozzle could be made to vac both sides. I've seen pics of these, but it's a pain to get the cuts exact.

Do you see any way to add a motor to the platter? That's the next level! Once you have a platter that spins all by itself you'll never go back!

I don't think so, but he does sell wand kits that you can use with your existing table.   I have a Gemini DD with no arm which I have been saving for such a project, but I don't know if that will ever happen.   Turning manually is no big deal for me thus far.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Resident on August 24, 2015, 10:50:23 AM
Thanks for the write up.  The seller definitely sounds like someone you would want to deal with.  Not the typical rabble that you find on Ebay.  Nice to know there are still some good sellers out there trying to make things right when they are wrong.

Im going to have to consider this one for sure though.  Seems decent enough and for the price how can you go wrong right.

Glad you are enjoying your purchase
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: scorpio333 on August 24, 2015, 11:47:19 AM

I don't think so, but he does sell wand kits that you can use with your existing table.   I have a Gemini DD with no arm which I have been saving for such a project, but I don't know if that will ever happen.   Turning manually is no big deal for me thus far.

From experience, a DD table will be ok for spreading fluid and light brushing. The motors don't have the torque to overcome the vacuum. I had no issue spinning manually, but like anything else automation spoils us.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: MasterBlaster on August 24, 2015, 01:52:58 PM
Set topic sticky. Great review STaL!

I will most likely move this to the reviews section as well. Need to decide whether I should just move your post or the whole thread.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 24, 2015, 03:35:35 PM
I forgot we had a reviews section.    :-[
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on August 26, 2015, 11:25:40 PM
So, when and where is the next "meeting"?   I want to bring this so you can all check it out.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Jim Pittsburgh on August 27, 2015, 07:42:59 AM
planning a party at my house for Saturday October 3rd... mark your calendars, and please plan on bringing it. I'll post a general announcement in the next week or so  Jim
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: scorpio333 on September 05, 2015, 12:01:30 PM
My buddy just got his and is very satisfied.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Jim Pittsburgh on October 23, 2015, 07:52:48 AM
Have had mine for about a week now and have cleaned and recleaned (Spin Clean previously cleaned) over twenty albums with excellent results! The Spin Clean has been retired or at least demoted to precleaning the filthiest of albums before vacuuming. Good Find Mark! and thanks again for bringing it to the party for a demo.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on October 23, 2015, 09:49:28 AM
You are welcome.   I'm glad you are having a good experience with it.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on April 26, 2016, 04:05:18 PM
So an interesting thing has happened.   I got the original Mark I version of this cleaner, then the manufacturer (Nick) made some changes (some at my suggestion) and came out with the current Mark III version.   I wrote Nick specifically about the attachments to clean 10" and 7" records.   I wanted to know if they would fit my cleaner and how much it would be to just buy them.   Nick answered that they weren't interchangeable but that since I suggested some of the changes and have done a lot to advertise his product, he wanted to send me the new version free of charge.   That was extremely generous of him and I do think that the changes are well executed and represent a genuine improvement.

So now I have two RCMs, the first of which (though still perfectly functional) I will likely never use again.   I don't want to sell it to someone who would just end up buying one from Nick anyway (undercutting him for a sale after he gave me one for free would just be slimy IMHO).   But I also don't want it to just kick around for no good reason.   So, if you know someone who would really like to have an RCM but genuinely can't afford one, please PM me so we can talk about getting this one into their hands at a significant discount (discount will hopefully be proportional to need/budget of recipient).   Thanks for your help with this, I want to handle it in a way that benefits everyone.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Jim Pittsburgh on April 26, 2016, 05:02:44 PM
great minds.... gave version 1 to Bearjew and version III (which I had to pay $60 for) to Ryan....  since I now have the VPI 16.5
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Sir Thrift-a-Lot on April 26, 2016, 05:57:46 PM
Do you find the VPI to be any more effective or just simpler?
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Jim Pittsburgh on April 27, 2016, 09:19:56 AM
To me, the VPI is better, quicker and simpler to use....   the wand on both SCs pulled too far away from its slot...and drys the fluids before they can be vacuumed IMHO. But it's still much, much better than the Spin Clean.  The VPI only pulls directly below the vacuum slot, not more than a mm or two to the sides....   Also, I can clean 2 -3  albums on the VPI in the time it took me to do one on the SC.   I've recleaned albums from my Spin Clean days on the SC and they improved a lot. Now, I've recleaned albums on the VPI that had been cleaned on the SC and they are definitely quieter. Also, there is soooooo much less clean up and noise with the VPI. It's no longer a major production and I don't have to wait to do batch cleaning....No big deal now to do a couple of albums ... JMHO   Loved the SQ, thanks for turning me onto it.... but getting the new model of the VPI 16.5 used for $350.... it was a no brainer.
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: EmperorNorton on April 27, 2016, 11:26:18 AM
Jim,

Did you find the VPI locally or on Ebay?   

thx
mike
Title: Re: $100 RCM
Post by: Jim Pittsburgh on April 27, 2016, 12:32:45 PM
pure luck, found it on CL here in the Pittsburgh area.