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Author Topic: Ribbon popping  (Read 14769 times)

Offline Slim-Shaddy

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Ribbon popping
« on: July 04, 2011, 10:07:32 AM »
I just threw on a Tool Cd and cranked it up a bit and noticed some popping coming from one of the ribbons during some of the loud passages. The amp's (TFM-35x) needle was hitting just under the 250 watt mark. It also seemed to be worse for certain frequencies at lower power. Is this something normal for these speakers (AL-iii)? Am I running too little power and over driving the amp? Is the ribbon dying? Do they need to be broken in more? I've heard Tom play ALs much louder at his shop, so I don't think the answer is simply dialing back the volume. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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bmwr75

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 10:16:45 AM »
Don't know the specs. on your amp, but might it have been clipping?
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Offline Slim-Shaddy

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 10:24:44 AM »
Quote from: bmwr75 on July 04, 2011, 10:16:45 AM
Don't know the specs. on your amp, but might it have been clipping?

Specs:
8-ohm FTC rated power/ch    250 W
4-ohm FTC rated power/ch    350 W
Bridged mono power    700 W
4/8-ohm FTC rated THD    0.01%
Input Impedance (Line)    47 kohms
Input Sensitivity    1.5V
Gain    29dB
Rated full power bandwidth    20-20kHz
S/N-IHF A-Weighted,dB    >115dB
Dimensions (HxWxD inches)    4.5x19x15.7 (with handles)
Comments    25 lbs

I don't think it was clipping, but I guess it could be possible. I'm not sure how the meters work when the impedance is changed. The meters show 8 ohms and the speakers are 4. 
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bmwr75

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2011, 10:53:15 AM »
I wouldn't put much faith in the meters, your ears are a better gauge.  Clipping sounds nasty and kills tweeters.  I'd be careful with the TFM-35 and these speakers.

I hear Tom's got some high power tube amps that might work better.   :laugh:
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Offline Slim-Shaddy

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2011, 10:59:44 AM »
I have a PM 1.5 I might try. It's 450 per channel at 8, 600 at 4. I want to make sure, though, that there's no issue with the ribbons before I up the power...
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Offline Kingman

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2011, 02:37:38 PM »
The 35 is a great amp but not a great match for the ALIII's. 2 words...MORE POWER...make it 4...HIGHER CURRENT!!!
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Offline Slim-Shaddy

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2011, 02:49:12 PM »
Quote from: Kingman on July 04, 2011, 02:37:38 PM
The 35 is a great amp but not a great match for the ALIII's. 2 words...MORE POWER...make it 4...HIGHER CURRENT!!!

What would you recommend? I have the PM 1.5. How do you think that would do? Is there anything out there less expensive than the 300~2 that would be up to the task or should I just start saving up for a sunfire?
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Offline Kingman

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2011, 03:59:36 PM »
I'm thinking the PM-1.5 at 375/channel at 8 ohms has to be an improvement even with the fan. I've got one but never had it hooked to the ALIII's. Almost everyone I've talked to say you need high power/high current. I run a 600x2 at the moment and I almost think they can handle more! If you are close to OCCD, have him listen to them and give you his opinion. As he told me...he KNOWS what ALIII's should sound like!!! Good luck...P.S...hook up the 1.5 and report back!!!!!
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Offline OCCD

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2011, 05:26:13 PM »
The ribbons won't pop if something is wrong. Put your PM 1.5 on them.
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Offline Slim-Shaddy

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2011, 06:08:46 PM »
Running the PM now. They sure sucked up that power fast!!!! Brought the PM to just below the clip mark and the ALs sounded their best so far in my possession, but they are still begging for more  :o. Kind of scary! I have no idea what the line is on these... and I like loud music ???
Anyway... my initial question is answered...
Thanks a ton guys!!
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Offline TNRabbit

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2011, 06:44:54 PM »
You were clipping your other amp; the meter is calculated for 8 ohms, but AL-IIIs are 4 ohms.  So you were probably hitting 500 watts at 250~

FYI: The crossover on all the Amazings are POWER HOGS.  They easily rob 40% of the power...
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Offline Slim-Shaddy

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2011, 06:48:53 PM »
How well does running active x-overs help the efficiency?
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Offline Bill Cain

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2011, 08:05:29 PM »
Quote from: Shape-shifter on July 04, 2011, 06:48:53 PM
How well does running active x-overs help the efficiency?

Strictly speaking; no.  Crossovers do not change how the individual drivers use the signal sent to them or change their inherent efficiency.  Active crossovers do allow for more power to be used for each driver and processing for each driver, should you desire.  This capability is valuable in a large system, but (maybe) not so much for a home system.

If, however, the speaker's crossover actually eats 40% of the amps's power, as someone stated, an active crossover and separate amps will increase the speaker's perceived efficiency.

IMHO.   :o

Bill Cain
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 08:25:27 PM by Bill Cain »
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Offline Slim-Shaddy

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2011, 08:22:25 PM »
My train of thought on using the active crossover is that maybe the woofer is less sensitive than the ribbon, so resistors were used to compensate. But, all in all, it's the same difference. I'm still going to need the same amount of power to get the same result.
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Offline Bill Cain

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Re: Ribbon popping
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2011, 08:49:20 PM »
Quote from: Shape-shifter on July 04, 2011, 08:22:25 PM
My train of thought on using the active crossover is that maybe the woofer is less sensitive than the ribbon, so resistors were used to compensate. But, all in all, it's the same difference. I'm still going to need the same amount of power to get the same result.

If the speaker's crossover is actually dumping a ton of signal into resistors to compensate for an inefficient woofer, I agree with you - up to a point.

With an active crossover, you might use the same amount of power to drive the woofer, but you can then use another, smaller amp for the tweeter by bypassing the speaker crossover.  If you clip the woofer amp, the tweeter amp will be unaffected.  Your tweeters will thank you.

 ;D

Bill Cain
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