Author Topic: please tell me what you think  (Read 20349 times)

Offline confused

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2010, 06:11:03 PM »
Bluray schmooray.  I am still mad that DVDA & sacd are getting no support or are already dead.  As an early adopter of both, I feel a bit abused by the big corporations.

That being said has anybody bought any of the universal bluray players?  I guess I will eventually have to break down and spend more hard earned cash enriching corps with little consiceration for the consumer.

IS THERE NO ROOM IN THE WORLD FOR A HIGH RESOLUTION VIDEOLESS AUDIO FORMAT!?
Dale

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Offline mikey813

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2010, 07:23:57 PM »
Good question Dale.
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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2010, 11:23:27 AM »
Bluray schmooray.  I am still mad that DVDA & sacd are getting no support or are already dead.  As an early adopter of both, I feel a bit abused by the big corporations.

That being said has anybody bought any of the universal bluray players?  I guess I will eventually have to break down and spend more hard earned cash enriching corps with little consiceration for the consumer.

IS THERE NO ROOM IN THE WORLD FOR A HIGH RESOLUTION VIDEOLESS AUDIO FORMAT!?

I'm with you Dale and totally understand the frustration. The BluRay format will end up being us Audiophile types savior I predict. Its just astonishing with the amount of information it will hold.

Here's an example...As much as I love the sound of Dave Gilmours Live In Gdansk CD, just imagine it sounding 5 times or so better with the BluRay version that is also available now and you can watch the concert as well , if you so desire.

I will be reporting to everyone here with my findings, just as soon as I get all of equipment setup. :-[ :-[
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Offline confused

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2010, 11:59:23 AM »
I have heard great things about the Bluray sound quality, but have yet to have a chance for direct comparison.  Still I wonder if anyone will ever put out audio only bluray. I don't always want the eye candy, and what happens to studio recordings?  Will we be doomed to watching these artist in padded rooms (maybe where many belong, LOL) with a mike blocking their face. 
Dale

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Offline paden501

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2010, 01:20:48 PM »
I've only ever seen movies in blue-ray, and never with the new HD audio codecs.  But even with my old HT Reciever, playing regular DTS, the sound quality of the blue-ray was WAY cleaner than the same DTS track on a DVD

And that's with both the BD and the DVD being played at the same time, switching back and forth between them with your eyes closes... it's very noticable.  I can only imagine the improvement of having a reciever that will decode the newest master audio and DD HD codecs.

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2010, 01:47:14 PM »
It's Going To Be Incredible Gentlemen. I Can't Wait.......BILL

Offline confused

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2010, 02:01:18 PM »
Paden501,

Now I am confused again!  If you are listening to the DD or DTS soundtracks, I am not sure why they would sound better on bluray.  Is your player decoding the high rez soundtracks and are you listening via the analog outputs?  Or, do to extra space are they putting more bits into DD and DTS tracks?
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Offline paden501

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2010, 09:51:07 PM »
Confused,

I wasn't decoding the hi res.  The BD player I had borrowed only would output digital audio via HDMI or via TOSLINK.  Not having HDMI on my reciever, I connected via the optical TOSLINK cable.  It was definately running the DTS track.

I'm not sure if the extra space available on the BD allows the DTS and DD tracks to be put on disk at better quality or what else it could have been.  I was comparing a borrowed Sony BD player vs. my XBox360 as a DVD player. 
~Matt
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Offline confused

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2010, 05:54:42 PM »
Jeez Paden501,

Bits is bits, some say.  The sound should not be that much different.  Though I have heard that DTS (the reason Sony put it on their high end DVD releases whose name escapes me) can be encoded at multiple bit rates, so maybe there is more bits on Bluray.
Dale

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Offline MasterBlaster

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2010, 08:50:14 PM »
Jeez Paden501,

Bits is bits, some say.  The sound should not be that much different.  Though I have heard that DTS (the reason Sony put it on their high end DVD releases whose name escapes me) can be encoded at multiple bit rates, so maybe there is more bits on Bluray.

There are varying levels of DTS quality; the highest level at this time being DTS-HD Master.
Your DVD case may provide detail about the formats of audio encoding on disc.

Check out this link to the DTS Formats

As for bits, more is better but there is a point where the difference cannot be
detected by human ears. High quality consumer recordings today are available in
24 bits, but Master recordings use even greater bits. In addition to bits, there is the sampling rate
which is how often the audio signal is analyzed and recorded.
Fwiw, yes, SACD is 1 bit encoding  but it is a completely different technology that would derail
the discussion.

I've included a
Link to wikipedia on Pulse Code Modulation as well as an excerpt from the doc:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Pulse-code modulation (PCM) is a digital representation of an analog signal where the magnitude of the signal is sampled regularly at uniform intervals, then quantized to a series of symbols in a numeric (usually binary) code. PCM has been used in digital telephone systems and 1980s-era electronic musical keyboards. It is also the standard form for digital audio in computers and the compact disc "red book" format. It is also standard in digital video, for example, using ITU-R BT.601. Uncompressed PCM is not typically used for video in standard definition consumer applications such as DVD or DVR because the bit rate required is far too high.


Modulation

In the diagram, a sine wave (red curve) is sampled and quantized for PCM. The sine wave is sampled at regular intervals, shown as ticks on the x-axis. For each sample, one of the available values (ticks on the y-axis) is chosen by some algorithm (in this case, the floor function is used). This produces a fully discrete representation of the input signal (shaded area) that can be easily encoded as digital data for storage or manipulation. For the sine wave example at right, we can verify that the quantized values at the sampling moments are 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 14, 15, 15, 15, 14, etc. Encoding these values as binary numbers would result in the following set of nibbles: 0111, 1001, 1011, 1100, 1101, 1110, 1110, 1111, 1111, 1111, 1110, etc. These digital values could then be further processed or analyzed by a purpose-specific digital signal processor or general purpose CPU. Several Pulse Code Modulation streams could also be multiplexed into a larger aggregate data stream, generally for transmission of multiple streams over a single physical link. This technique is called time-division multiplexing, or TDM, and is widely used, notably in the modern public telephone system.

There are many ways to implement a real device that performs this task. In real systems, such a device is commonly implemented on a single integrated circuit that lacks only the clock necessary for sampling, and is generally referred to as an ADC (Analog-to-Digital converter). These devices will produce on their output a binary representation of the input whenever they are triggered by a clock signal, which would then be read by a processor of some sort.


« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 09:08:53 PM by Master Blaster »
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Offline confused

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2010, 09:02:12 PM »
Actually I was referring to the original DTS CODEC.  DTS-Master is brand new andit is not backwards compatible with the original DTS format.  The 96-24 format was backwards compatible I believe, but only improved the sound if your AVR could decode.

PCM vs PWM-Both great formats, but when Sony released PWM recording (single bit), much of the audio world thought their motives may have been more about making files to big to download and not sonic improvement!

The main advantage to PWM was Linearity at low-levels-Improvement in standard ladder DACs have made that point moot as iI understand it.
Dale

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Offline MasterBlaster

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2010, 09:22:28 PM »
Agreed; If you have the vanilla DTS encoding on DVD and the same encoding on BluRay,
like for like encoding on differing media should have no impact on sound quality.

I would imagine that these days BluRay discs are offering the higher quality audio
signals to match the quality of the Video offered.

One other comment. I want proprietary digital media to go away! I'd much rather download
my music / video or buy it on a solid state media like a thumbdrive.

I want to load it onto my media server and do with it what I wish!
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Offline confused

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2010, 10:05:06 PM »
Good luck Master-Blaster!  I don't think the "owners" of the media will give it up without a revolution!

Also despite the space, I still prefer physical media.  If my harddrive dies, I can fill it up again, or just put on an ancient record/cd which draws much less power than my computer when reproducing a signal at low levels.

Lastly, I have had my ups and downs financially, and until WWW is free and universal even in a proprietary free world will cost you monthly.
Dale

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Offline MasterBlaster

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2010, 10:31:24 PM »
Mikey, the Genie is already out of the bottle.  I believe the Corporate machine doesn't care how the media is delivered as long as it can be controlled. They have been struggling with DRM for a while now, and as soon as they figure out how to preserve their revenue stream media access will be ubiquitous. 

Physical media historically has been the delivery mechanism
because the tech wasn't there, and there was paranoia about theft/piracy.

We are already seeing it trending in that direction; mp3 downloads, "digital copy" downloads of dvd's, Netflix online, etc.

The internet will be the source for all media. Cable TV as we know it will also be a thing of the past.
As for backups, all of your digital property does not necessarily need to be in your posession.
It could all be saved to the internet "Cloud" for your retrieval at any time.

As for data loss, many online companies provide "unlimited" backup for like $5 a month.
It would not surprise me if you start to see these type of backup services included as part of your internet package.

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Offline confused

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Re: please tell me what you think
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2010, 10:47:55 PM »
You have a great point- to quote a great man-"the times they are a'changing"

I still like physical media!  I can read a book or the cover of a cd or lp without anything but some light.  When all media is digital, if access to that stream ever becomes controlled. so will we.  There are many ways to control it including pricing it out of reach.  My connection costs me about 45/MO, if it was raised to 1000, not only me but many would not have access.  If all books are online, we have lost something.

Also, until we give up centralized power distribution, all they have to is turn off the power. 
Dale

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