Author Topic: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?  (Read 20317 times)

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What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« on: January 20, 2010, 06:57:50 PM »
What's Your Thoughts On Having The Carver TFM-25 Hooked Up To Your Polk Audio SDA's ? Did You Get To Do Any Serious Listening Yet With This Combination ?

I'm Dying To Know ;) ;D------BILL(BB3)

Offline paden501

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2010, 08:24:28 PM »
I've only done about 2 hours of listening so far.  I've got a full review coming but not until I get a chance to really crank it up. 

So far I can say that the 25 brings the bass home a lot better than the Hafler, but I feel like it's a little less open.  I noticed in a few songs I can hear background singers and instruments a lot 'bigger' with the hafler than the 25. 

More to come.

~Matt
--- My System ---
Front L/R: Polk Audio SDA-1C w/ Modified xovers
Amp: Carver TFM-24
CD: Jolida JD100a
HTR/Pre: B&K Reference 20
Turntable:Pioneer PL-516 W/ Shure M97xe
Surrounds -Polk Audio Monitor 4As

Offline Slim-Shaddy

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2010, 09:27:03 PM »
I'm sure you'll like the 25. I'm liking my 22 quite a bit. Going from a dh220 @ 115wpc to the 25 at 225 is quite a boost in power. I know those polks pretty well, and I know they love power. I grew up listening to a pair of sda 1s powered by a hafler dh500 (rated 255 wpc bench tested at 308) and they gobbled up the juice and asked for more. I for-see you picking up another 25 and running one per polk ;).
I am confident that an SL-1200 is capable of outperforming turntables of much higher expense with minor modification.

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 01:18:38 PM »
Hmmmm, that's interesting Matt. That just goes to show that your Hafler is no slouch. ;)

I'd love to see you do what King-Edwin is suggesting(running 2 TFM-25's), but I don't believe that will be possible due to the lack of having bi-amp provisions on your particular SDA's. I could be wrong though. ???

Thank you for posting your thoughts on this matter, Matt.-------BILL(BB3)

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 04:52:50 PM »


I'd love to see you do what King-Edwin is suggesting(running 2 TFM-25's), but I don't believe that will be possible due to the lack of having bi-amp provisions on your particular SDA's. I could be wrong though. ???



Even if there's no biamp capability, you could always just run the amps in mono for buku power :P
I am confident that an SL-1200 is capable of outperforming turntables of much higher expense with minor modification.

Offline paden501

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 10:50:25 PM »
Hmmmm, that's interesting Matt. That just goes to show that your Hafler is no slouch. ;)

I'd love to see you do what King-Edwin is suggesting(running 2 TFM-25's), but I don't believe that will be possible due to the lack of having bi-amp provisions on your particular SDA's. I could be wrong though. ???

Thank you for posting your thoughts on this matter, Matt.-------BILL(BB3)

Yeah a bi-amp isn't really possible with the 1Cs.  I could do dual-mono as King-Edwin suggests, but I'd have to either buy or build an Isolation transformer SDA cable (forget the model name for them).  I've got the right pin-blade SDA design to do it, I'd just need to go about the mod.


I'm not sure what I'm going to do right now.  There are things that i really like about the 25, and things that I like more about the Hafler.  Later tonight I'll post a full review.

~Matt
--- My System ---
Front L/R: Polk Audio SDA-1C w/ Modified xovers
Amp: Carver TFM-24
CD: Jolida JD100a
HTR/Pre: B&K Reference 20
Turntable:Pioneer PL-516 W/ Shure M97xe
Surrounds -Polk Audio Monitor 4As

Offline paden501

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2010, 12:36:23 AM »
Ok.  Time for my full review.

Let me start by saying that I'm really glad that I waited an extra night to post this, because my thoughts have swung a full 180 degrees thoughout this process.

The case for Hafler:
I've had the Hafler DH-220 for about 4 months now.  It's a good little amp, rated at at 115 watts into 8ohms.  The Hafler is capable of driving my 1Cs to pretty high volume levels, but doesn't bring a whole lot of bass to the table.  It seems to image well, and has a pretty cleans sound.  If I had to characterize it, I'd say that it's a little forward in the tweeter range, solid in the middle and a little light on bass.

My impressions of the TFM-25:
This amp can really bring the rain!  I basically can't find the end of the volume dial on it, which is great but totally unnecessary.  The 25 seems pretty clean also.  It definately digs a lot deeper than the Hafler, which is something that I'm really looking for in a new amp.  With the Carver, I 'feel' the music a lot more, even at .5watt on the meter! 

On the flip side, I feel like the Carver is a lot more laid back on the high end... almost more-so than I'd like it to be.  On some recordings I feel like I lose the vocals behind the rest of the music a bit.

The sound-stage with the Carver amp also isn't quite as wide.  For this I kept going back to same track over and over again.

"Turn the Page" - Garage Inc. - Metallica

The intro begins with a guitar at stage center playing low, and is followed by another electric note played high and to the right.

With the Hafler amp, the second guitar is placed high and about a foot in front of the speaker.  With the Carver it's still equally high but only as far right and forward as the speaker. However, in other recordings the stage has seemed quite wide.

I think the difference overall comes back to the presence of the high-notes.  With the Hafler, the highs are much more forward than with the Carver and that manifests itself in the perception of depth and width in the soundstage at times.


I also noticed a few other sticking points about this Hafler amp and this Carver amp in particular.  With the Hafler, I get an audible 'thump' when I turn on the unit, which is rather annoying. Also the power switch on the Hafler is backlit, but the light flickers constantly as the amp runs.  I've looked at a lot of sources online that all say that it's basically normal for these amps to do that.  There is a mod available to fix it.

With the Carver, I noticed that if I fire up the amp with the source and pre already going, I get a few seconds of really horrible distortion.  The first time that this happened I thought I had something messed up in my hookups, but it happens everytime I start the Carver up from cold.  I'm assuming that this is a sign of aging electronic components.

I also should mention that like every other normal MOSFET amp, you could cook an egg on the Hafler amp after about 15 minutes of music, whereas the Carver seems to stay cool no matter what I throw at it.

All-in-all, I like the TFM-25 amp.  I think it's an improvement for the most part over my Hafler, although it does have its drawbacks as well.

~Matt
--- My System ---
Front L/R: Polk Audio SDA-1C w/ Modified xovers
Amp: Carver TFM-24
CD: Jolida JD100a
HTR/Pre: B&K Reference 20
Turntable:Pioneer PL-516 W/ Shure M97xe
Surrounds -Polk Audio Monitor 4As

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2010, 09:42:10 AM »
Wow Matt ! That is certainly a very good review and I appreciate you taking the time to do it.
Not telling you what to do of course Matt.......but I suggest that you fire up the Amps first before powering on anything else. ;) and then the Pre, and finally your Source. Let everything settle in for a few minutes and then "Pump Up The Jam". 8)

Happy Listening Matt.----------BILL


Offline paden501

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 10:08:09 AM »
Wow Matt ! That is certainly a very good review and I appreciate you taking the time to do it.
Not telling you what to do of course Matt.......but I suggest that you fire up the Amps first before powering on anything else. ;) and then the Pre, and finally your Source. Let everything settle in for a few minutes and then "Pump Up The Jam". 8)

Happy Listening Matt.----------BILL



Thanks Bill.

Normally I would always start up the amp first.  However, in the testing environment I was switching components back and forth a lot so that wasn't always what happened. 
~Matt
--- My System ---
Front L/R: Polk Audio SDA-1C w/ Modified xovers
Amp: Carver TFM-24
CD: Jolida JD100a
HTR/Pre: B&K Reference 20
Turntable:Pioneer PL-516 W/ Shure M97xe
Surrounds -Polk Audio Monitor 4As

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 10:18:49 AM »
Nice review!
I am confident that an SL-1200 is capable of outperforming turntables of much higher expense with minor modification.

Offline thuffman03

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 09:48:04 PM »
I really like the TFM 25's.  That said, you should see it Tom will let you try the M1.5t.  I bet that amp will really make those speakers come alive.
Got Carver?

Offline paden501

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2010, 11:09:47 PM »
Next amp up for review.  Carver M1.0T:

Tom was nice enough to let me steal an M1.0T for a few days to see what I though of it.  I've only been listening to it for a few hours this evening, but so far I've only got one word to describe the 1.0T..... SMOOTH.

The 1.0T doesn't have the bass presence of the TFM-25 and still doesn't have the soundstage of the Hafler DH-220, but what it does have is just a silky smooth sound, warm and non-fatiguing all the way up and down the spectrum.

At first, I was unimpressed with this amp... coming off of listening to the TFM-25 all morning, going to the M1.0T was a bit of a downer.  The amp just doesn't have the 'slam' that the 25 has, and so my immediate thoughts were that it's a bit boring.  The more I'm listening to this amp though, the more I'm enjoying it. 

I'll put up more thoughts as I listen some more.

~Matt
--- My System ---
Front L/R: Polk Audio SDA-1C w/ Modified xovers
Amp: Carver TFM-24
CD: Jolida JD100a
HTR/Pre: B&K Reference 20
Turntable:Pioneer PL-516 W/ Shure M97xe
Surrounds -Polk Audio Monitor 4As

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2010, 12:00:59 AM »
I'm liking the reviews.... There should be a "Paden's review corner" category. You want to do a review my JBL?
I am confident that an SL-1200 is capable of outperforming turntables of much higher expense with minor modification.

Offline paden501

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2010, 12:08:13 AM »
I'm always afraid to write these reviews.  I don't want to offend someone's favorite piece of equipment or something.

W/ that said, I'm all about hearing new stuff.
~Matt
--- My System ---
Front L/R: Polk Audio SDA-1C w/ Modified xovers
Amp: Carver TFM-24
CD: Jolida JD100a
HTR/Pre: B&K Reference 20
Turntable:Pioneer PL-516 W/ Shure M97xe
Surrounds -Polk Audio Monitor 4As

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Re: What's The Verdict Matt (Paden501) ?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2010, 11:03:20 PM »
Matt, I'm really loving your review. It's really good "stuff".

Not that I'm speaking for anyone else, but I don't think you could
ever offend anyone here. We're your friends.....and remember Matt
its what sounds good to YOU that matters most, NOT anyone else.

Now that being said, you are without a doubt doing the absolute
best thing possible by testing these different amps out, and really
kudos to Tom for allowing any of us here the opportunity to experiment
in such a way as your doing Matt.

Take Care Matt And Keep Up The Good Work. I'm Enjoying The Hell
Out If It.
-------------BILL(BB3)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 10:37:35 AM by BB3 »