Will my Carver MXR 130 handle Magnepan speakers?

[Steve]

Hi, everyone.  I'm new to this forum, but I have a burning question.

I'm about to get my Carver MXR 130 brought back up to specs and I've decided that, for the first time in over 20 years I'm going to upgrade my system with a new pair of speakers.  I live near Baton Rouge and in about a week I'm going to head over to New Orleans to audition some Magnepans.  The Magnepan site discusses the need for a solid amplifier source. 

I've always had faith in my Carver, but I've been out of circulation for years when it comes to matching components, so I could use some advice.

What do you folks think--I'm looking seriously at the MG 12 and maybe the MC1's because of their ability to wall mount (space is constraint).

[Kingman]

That is a sweet amp, but IMHO you really need more power for ribbons such as the Maggies. 130 watts on ribbon speakers seems kinda low??? 

[Steve]

You may be right, but "back in the day" when Carver was promoting this receiver they claimed that the ratings were conservative in comparison to other products.

The only specs I can find come from the service manual, and they don't list a 4 ohm rating.

[Kingman]

One of the things Maggies do have issues with is power. You will need a good deal of it to drive them properly. An amp like the $2k 400Wpc (into 4 ohms) Parasound Halo A21 will do just fine.

...I also looked at the specs of the MRX 130. It does not list an output at 4 ohms which IMO means it was not intended to drive 4 ohm loads.

[OCCD]

As long as you don't crank them up too much, the 130 will do OK. A nice TFM-55 would do the job.

[OldiesButGoodies]

I have owned several Maggies. They low impedance power to sond good, but I have never experienced them damaging a receiver that was not up to making them sound good (also not sure which panels are your driving - smgs or 3.6s or ??). 

Please do not draw any final conclusions on Maggie sound based on this though!   Borrow a decent  power amp and use the 130 as a pre to test how they really sound under power.

Cheers,

Pepe

[Kingman]

Please do not draw any final conclusions on Maggie sound based on this though!   Borrow a decent  power amp and use the 130 as a pre to test how they really sound under power.

Electrostatic speaker are power hungry...while 130 watts may do, 380 will do BETTER!!!!!     

[OldiesButGoodies]

 

Hey Kingman - not to get all technical on you,  but Maggies are manetic planar speakers,  not electrostatic!   

Electrostats like Martin Logans consist of driver material between stators driven by a transformer (the speaker becomes a gynormous capacitor) that in turn is fed by your amp.  The transformer requires power from the wall to get the stators/grid going with high tension voltage. The Maggies are Mylar (or,  if repaired by me, any piece of thin plastic within arms length, including sandwich bags) with conductive wires glued, tensed on a frame, and the frame is suspended on a magnetic field (large bar magnets).   

Both designs are planar. 

The Maggies are power hogs - not sure how bad the stats are because I have never bought one (if you are going planar,  go with ribbons I say... and Maggies are the best).

See you at the meeting...  If I ever make it - I keep telling Tom I am going and I never stay for the good part.

Pepe

[Kingman]

Hey...no problem...too much Jet lag...working on 28 hours straight!!!!!! My mistake...they are still hungry speakers...personally, I like to abuse such beasts with as many watts as I can get........see what they are capable of......Thanks for the correction!!!   ...PS .... If I make it to Pittsburgh, EVERYONE will be at the meeting!!!!!!!

[OldiesButGoodies]

No problema mi amigo.  Take care, 

Pepe

[Steve]

I have owned several Maggies. They low impedance power to sond good, but I have never experienced them damaging a receiver that was not up to making them sound good (also not sure which panels are your driving - smgs or 3.6s or ??). 

Please do not draw any final conclusions on Maggie sound based on this though!   Borrow a decent  power amp and use the 130 as a pre to test how they really sound under power.

Cheers,

Pepe

The ones I'm most interested in are the MG12s which are quite a bit smaller than the 3.5s.  Space is a big concern in my home.

Way back I owned a pair of ESS AMT-1Cs that had the sweetest sound.  I had a bad run of luck with them; they unexpectedly went out on my when my brother was home and I was away.  He brought the speaker with the problem back to the dealer for repair but when I arrived home we discovered the other had problems, too.  I brought it in for repair but the dealer went bankrupt and his landlord seized everything that was unlabeled (so he said) and sold it, including my 1C and some other guy's, which he repaired and sold as a pair.  I've long thought that those speakers may have had an inherent problem since I wasn't the only person with one in for repair.  Anyway, I've always missed those wonderful sounds and I'm going to give those Maggies an audition.  I'm heading down to New Orleans next week.

You make a good point about the importance of a proper power match.  I'm kinda by myself in terms of finding a powerful amp to test with, but if I find that the 130 isn't cutting it, I may head over to ebay for some bargain shopping.

[OldiesButGoodies]

I owned a pair of MG12QRs,  bought them new at Shirley's Hi Fi in Woodland Hills CA and had them shipped to San Juan, PR where I lived at the time.  What a great pair of speakers.  I will summarize it by putting it this way - upon seeing them set up in the living room, my wife became a tad enraged and rattled "...those are the biggest speakers I have ever seen, they are ugly tall boards,  you should have asked me before buying these, you inconsiderate bastard....  bla bla bla <then she shut up as The Eagles started playing and she could not believe how well the guitars sounded>.  We spent the ext 45 minutes listening and she never brought the aesthetics up again.

My point about power is: I drove them at first from a Sherwood Newcastle receiver and they sounded ok.  Eventually I switched to a Lexicon DC-2 with a PS-Audio 120 wpc amp and they sounded better.  Then I borrowed an Anthem MCA5 200 wpc amp and the speakers unveiled a new level of clarity.  They are like that - the more watts you give them the better they sound at reasonable volumes.  My experimenting never led to damaged amps - but maybe I was just lucky. 

Note this:

They suck as far as any sign of deep bass,  and you need a *very* fast sub to keep up with them and make a good match in a home theater setting. I have heard Epos and Snell (musical) subs are good fits - I would not know,  I went through three Paradigm subs before giving up and accepting them as they were.

The center channel model that matches them was a poor experience for me. By far the worse, expensive center channel I have ever purchased (close to $1k).  IMO, get a decent dynamic driver center instead,  or better yet use the Maggies for a dedicated 2 channel proper stereo.

I have concluded that the best sound (for me any way) comes from two channel. I keep a nice home theater for movies,  but it is far easier to set up a two-channel listening room for music,  and the Maggies are great  in this role. It may have to do with there being no clear standard approach for properly recording music encoded into more than two channels (witness the failure of quad in the seventies).

At any rate,  net of the spousal acceptance factor and the need to spray cat-repellent to the bottom of the grills of you happen to have cats,  the Maggies rock.  The SMGs are like crack cocaine, they give you a little but not enough. Next thing you know you own MG12s.  Now you have me thinking about a pai of MG 1.6s... can't really say I enjoyed life without having owned a pair of those.  Hmmm

Pepe   

[OldiesButGoodies]

Maybe the best strategy for me is to buy a bigger house with a huge listening room (poorly labeled by a realtor as a "family room") and bring in a pair of 3.6s in. That will of course require new amplification, decent cables that do not distort the amp's load view, and... you know the story. That would *really* test the strength of my 24-year union to a woman that is happy with a Delco FM radio in an old GM car with whizzer cones claiming to be tweeters. 

I may need to sleep a few nights on the floor at 3457 Babcock while she cools her jets off though.   

Bet to stick with my cheap refurbished EPIs and Polk Jrs for now. 

Pepe

[Steve]

My point about power is: I drove them at first from a Sherwood Newcastle receiver and they sounded ok.  Eventually I switched to a Lexicon DC-2 with a PS-Audio 120 wpc amp and they sounded better.  Then I borrowed an Anthem MCA5 200 wpc amp and the speakers unveiled a new level of clarity.  They are like that - the more watts you give them the better they sound at reasonable volumes.  My experimenting never led to damaged amps - but maybe I was just lucky. 

...

I have concluded that the best sound (for me any way) comes from two channel. I keep a nice home theater for movies,  but it is far easier to set up a two-channel listening room for music,  and the Maggies are great  in this role. It may have to do with there being no clear standard approach for properly recording music encoded into more than two channels (witness the failure of quad in the seventies).

...

Pepe   

I really relate to much of your post.  I've only in the last couple of years returned my focus to the music listening experience.  Believe it or not, it started a couple of years ago when I got an iPod big enough to rip my entire collection on to, so I have unlimited playlists.  Now using a lossless format, that capacity is being used up.  Although I've been married nearly 17 years, I've never directed disposable income to audio pursuits in the way I am now.

I, too, have decided to go the route of a better 2-channel system and will put off a theater for the time being.  I suppose I could just skip right past repairing my old Carver Receiver, but it is my favorite piece and I'm very attached to it.  But I think I'll likely follow your path and keep an amp/receiver upgrade in mind in the near future. 

Marital harmony is a balancing act--but I'm a pretty good boy (generally).   

Oh, and on the no clear multi-channel standard, it sure seems that SACD and DVD-A are fading.  I'd better grab a few discs before they disappear entirely.

[Kingman]

What receiver you got Steve??