Issue using Oppo BDP-95 DAC instead of my Denon AVR-4308 DAC

[F1nut]

Another thought, how many hours do you have on the Oppo?

[Ajdma2za]

Roughly 5 hours

[MasterBlaster]

  I think somehow the Denon is either converting the analog to digital, or it's using it's DAC somehow, and the Oppo is acting as transport somehow, even though it's via analog.

I don't believe that is possible.

It is a surround receiver after all. In order for it to apply Surround effects via the DSP, it must be a digital signal so if its an analog input, it must be converted first.  It may very well be that it always passes through the DSP even if there is no surround effect in which case it will perform ADC->DSP->DAC on an analog input.

I looked into the "Direct" mode on your receiver and the manual only says that it bypasses the tone controls and nothing about bypassing DSP surround effects. That said, I did read elsewhere that Direct mode does indeed bypass the DSP circuitry so it is definitely worth a shot.

[Ajdma2za]

On a side note, the receiver has a 24-bit DAC in it. When would the receiver's DAC be used? When I'm plugging something in with a digital connection? Or when the receiver is in stereo mode?

I did try direct mode on both the Oppo and the AVR, and I didn't hear any noticeable difference. I've been thinking about buying an Integra Pre-amp/pro that has a 32-bit burr brown DAC in it; meaning I wouldn't need the Oppo, and I could just use any CD player as a transport, right? If that's the case, and I use a component CD player as a transport, can I literally use any CD player and it'll sound the same as a transport, or are there still other things to look at?

Denon hasn't responded to me either yet regarding if the receiver is in fact converting the analog because of the reasons you just mentioned (ADC-DSP-DAC). I may call Oppo tomorrow. Otherwise, I'll just return it, and buy a pre-amp/pro like the Integra or maybe even just a 2-channel pre-amp. I don't know. I don't know much about pre-amps.

[MasterBlaster]

afaik,  the DAC is needed when a digital signal from a source is used (cd/dvd/sacd) or when dsp effects are set regardless of the input type.

[F1nut]

Roughly 5 hours

In that case it's not even close to being burned in. Give it 200 hours.

On a side note, the receiver has a 24-bit DAC in it. When would the receiver's DAC be used? When I'm plugging something in with a digital connection? Or when the receiver is in stereo mode?

I did try direct mode on both the Oppo and the AVR, and I didn't hear any noticeable difference. I've been thinking about buying an Integra Pre-amp/pro that has a 32-bit burr brown DAC in it; meaning I wouldn't need the Oppo, and I could just use any CD player as a transport, right? If that's the case, and I use a component CD player as a transport, can I literally use any CD player and it'll sound the same as a transport, or are there still other things to look at?

  

You're still overlooking that fact that the pre amp section in an AVR or pre/pro is not going to be anywhere near as good as a dedicated stereo pre amp. That and there's more to good sound than the DAC. Such things as a high quality power supply, choke regulation, jitter and circuit design play important roles as well. Esoteric felt the transport itself was so important that they made one built like a Sherman tank.

[Turtle]

I am speaking purely from a practical standpoint without pretending to be technical, but from what I understand of my own past setups, perhaps it will be of some use.  These observations come from a short lived effort to craft a multi-channel SACD audio system.

When I first set up my system, I ran a Denon 3910 into a Denon AVR 5700, and eventually switched to an Onkyo 906 receiver. (Btw, the Denon is much better musically).

Digital (HDMI or Coaxial) output from the player to either receiver = Processing by the receiver's onboard DAC with a choice of any supplied codecs (eg. stereo, Dolby, Neo6).

Analog output (2ch or 6ch) from the player to receiver = Processing by the player's onboard DAC in the disc's native or default codec.  (This is how I played DVD Audio discs)

In the analog scenario, you can choose to have the receiver apply room correction (eg. Audyssey), but not audio codec processing.

So before you get your shorts in a bunch over the DAC, you might want to do what others have recommended and consider upgrading to or testing a good 2ch preamp and then evaluate your player.

Someone please correct me if I that didn't make any sense, I just had a long day and a bottle of wine.

[Ajdma2za]

Ok, so my only question is should I buy a stereo pre-amp or would buying a new pre-amp/pro like the Integra 80.2 and replacing my AVR all together be a good idea? Or is it not necessary? If a stereo pre-amp is the universal opinion of what I should do, is the Parasound 2100 good? Or is there something else out there better in the same price range? Someone showed me a link from Audiogon but I'm not familiar with that brand.

Really, thanks for all the advice guys! I've just come to the point now where the Oppo isn't sounding different than the PS3, at least on the Denon. And I guess I'm thinking if I bought the Integra 80.2, I could return the Oppo and sell my Denon, and just use a CD player as a transport and let the Integra do the work. I'm trying to figure what would be more cost efficient I suppose. Plus the Integra has the HDMI 1.4 inputs which my Denon does not, and I do have a 3D TV. That matters very little; I'd rather do what's the best bang for the buck:

Option A

Return The oppo for $1000
Sell my Denon for $350-550
Buy the Integra 80.2 for $2199, or hopefully on sale someplace.
(Spend an additional $650-800, and use the PS3 as a transport)

Option B

Buy a stereo pre-amp for $500-1000

Either way, I'm spending additional cash. Would a stereo pre-amp for that ballpark be better than the Denon AVR?

[thuffman03]

Welcome to the wonderful world of the audiophile.  It is a journey that will continue until you run out of money, die or both.  LOL.

[F1nut]

I don't like talking to brickwalls, so I'm out. Good luck.

[MacGeek]

For $900, you might be able to build a decent 2 channel system and keep the stereo seperate from the home theater.  I faced this problem a number of years ago-was never happy with the stereo comming from the home theater (actually built the home theater from the stereo and then ended up taking it apart again).  I imagine there are other 2 channel fans on this forum who have struggled with the same thing.

A nice vintage stereo intergrated amp and a pair of 6" 2-ways for $900 or less is achievable and should be a ton of fun to pull together.  If the disc player has a volume control and no phono is needed, a player, power amp and speakers is enough and should sound outstanding.

[Ajdma2za]

It does have a volume control, and I actually hooked up it up that way tonight and it sounded good, still the same as going through my Denon AVR though lol. I spent a good portion of the day talking to a different home audio store in Syracuse, NY, and that guy there made it sound as if I need a new pre-amp/processor or a stereo pre-amp to hear a difference; that I won't utilizing my AVR as a pre-amp. As much as I'm willing to test this out, I don't think I have the funds to do so. I'll probably just return the Oppo, stick to what I was using, since it sounds the same anyway, and build a 2-channel system. I still can't get over the fact that a stereo pre-amp will make the Oppo sound MUCH better than an AVR, since all it's doing is volume control and a little EQ. I guess I just don't understand. Or maybe I've just reached the fullest potential of my speakers and newly acquired power amp. I don't know. The guy in Syracuse said he's actually running the Integra 80.2 on a Parasound Halo Amp, which isn't too far away from how the Parasound 5250 sounds. I might check that out, depending on what speakers he's using too. Same guy did say using an NAD stereo pre-amp would be a lot less of a "bright" sound than the Denon, and since Klipsch towers tend to be brighter, it might be a good combination. Any thoughts on that?

[MacGeek]

Any time a component is added to the signal chain, the signal is degraded (one might debate the extent to which the change is audible).  I have seperate stereo and home theater rigs.  When I connect my disc player direct to my amps, it sounds better than when it runs through the pre amp, and this is in a high end, analog two channel set up.  I just made a substantial upgrade to my preamp and while there is noticeably less insertion loss than with the old unit, the CD player still sounds better direct to the amps.

If running the disc player direct to the amp in your set up doesn't sound any different than through the pre-pro, then the Denon must be one hell of a unit or there there is something wrong with the OPPO or how it's configured.  Alternatively, maybe the source material doesn't reveal the differences, or the speakers may be a limiting factor.  If you can, I suggest trying different players in your various configurations, trying the OPPO on someone else's set up and listening to the most revealing music you have or can borrow.  Swapping the speakers may also change things.

This is the joy of the Audio habit (addiction?).  No matter what, just be sure to have fun.

[Ajdma2za]

After talking to a few different shops, I'm going this route:

Selling Denon once I can afford:

Marantz 7005 or Integra 80.2

Buying:

Parasound Halo P3 (JC 2 would be awesome--but I liked the reviews on the P3 over the NAD at a similar price. If anyone knows of anything better and cheaper or same price, let me know)
Nad 565 CD Player

Denon replied today stating that even while plugging a device in via analog, the DAC is still being used in the receiver, and to turn it off you have to go into pure direct mode, but even still, it'll still be sending some kind of current which will effect even analog out on a CD player. Plus, I've heard there's a lot of people buying into Oppo and half are realizing it's all talk and no game. I like the reviews on the NAD CD player, even the Cambridge at a similar price point.

I think once I make these final upgrades I'll be maxed out at what I'll be able to "get out" of my Klipsch speakers, unless of course I got the Parasound Halo JC 2, that pre-amp just seems to have heavenly reviews all around it.